Big George was so passive in that fight. I remember watching it when it first aired and kept thinking "why is George not making an effort?".
In a later interview George (who admittedly said some crazy S) stated that if viewers knew how many fights were fixed they would stop watching.
A bunch of fights out of Africa and poverty level parts of South America. I'd imagine Southern Asia too, but I'm not up on that.
Thanx Stevie G. I dont dip my toe in as much but this Classic forum is the only one i go to when i do. A lot of sharp guys here whose knowledge is amongst the best ive ever came across. Hope alls well with you mate
The main reason I think the second Ali-Liston is a fix is that Ali knew he hadn't hit him hard to knock him down. Ali was screaming at Liston to get up.All the experts, ie ex fighters including George Chuvalo knew it was a dive. A few of them later changed their minds but I think boxing had such a bad reputation at the time, they were told to retract their statements When you land a ko punch you can feel it up your arm and into the shoulder like an orgasm. I watched a documentary on Ali recently and Michael Bentt pointed out all the writhing round Liston was doing and called it 'bad acting' Joe Louis and Ray Robinson carried some of their opponents and I reckon Jersey Joe Walcott had to go into the tank a few times.Some of the fighters he lost to when he was younger, shouldn't have been sharing the ring with him.
I think there were too many other contributing factors isolated from Liston himself to suggest a fix. For one thing, Walcott didn’t even administer a count before waving it off upon Fleischer’s advice. Ali was delayed in retreating to a neutral corner which consequently should’ve delayed the start of the count anyway. Ali screams at Liston to get up, allegedly concerned that the audience will perceive a “fix” but then Ali himself begins a preemptive victory lap even before 10 secs had elapsed since Liston hit the canvas. Sonny finally arose when the coast was clear to fight on then good ol’ Jersey “I missed the count vs Marciano” Joe Walcott waves it off. If Liston did deliberately take a dive, it was amazing that he had such an “unwitting” cast in perfect support. There were multiple culpable parties involved in Lewiston but when the smoke cleared many found it too easy to point to Liston as the sole culprit. Due to past “misdemeanours”, Sonny presented as the ultimate “fall guy”. Too bad the original fight date didn’t come off - Sonny was moody, focused and trained to the second - ready to land in the ring at a very well conditioned 212 lbs. Not to say Liston would’ve won but it would likely have been better than what went down in Maine.
Foreman vs Briggs was blatantly rigged. I suppose this was done because it would be a bit of an embarrassment to the sport of boxing to have a 48 year old heavyweight champion of the world successfully defending his title for an extended period of time. Round 1: 10-10 Even Round 2: 10-9 Foreman Round 3: 10-9 Foreman Round 4: 10-8 Foreman Round 5: 10-8 Foreman Round 6: 10-10 Even Round 7: 10-9 Foreman Round 8: 10-8 Foreman Round 9: 10-9 Foreman Round 10: 10-10 Even Round 11: 10-9 Foreman Round 12: 10-9 Foreman Total Points: 120 vs 108 Punches through Round 7 Foreman accuracy: 59% Briggs accuracy: 43%
He was certainly not the Foreman we're used to in that fight. It looked like age had finally caught up with him, but of course he went on to win the title after this fight even, so who knows?
I too think that one was a fix, for the same reason Bentt does. The way Liston rolled around on the canvas was deplorable acting. That isn't how one responds when struggling to get up from a knockdown. That fight was rather obviously tanked. Not sure if it was pre-arranged or Liston just decided against it at the last second, but he absolutely threw it.
Right from the bell Liston was over his front foot inviting a punch, any punch, so he could lie down. Ali knew straight away Liston had gone into the tank.
I think that legit fixed fights, not robberies, but legitimate glorified choreographies, are way more common than people think they are. I'm not in the mood to get in a long argument with everybody, but some people would be very surprised to find out alot of scummy **** from their favorite boxers if they just looked close enough and analyzed the tape particularly in modern boxing, i think that the problem is even greater now than it was when the Mob controlled the sport. Think about it for a second, people. Any top level sport with prize money and a lucrative gambling market is open to being fixed. Sure there have been fixed fights just as many horse races, cricket matches etc have been proved to have been fixed. Why would anyone think that boxing would be some uniquely 'pure' case? Parker Vs Zhang Lomachenko Vs Campbell Bivol Vs Ramirez Just my two cents.
Nothing to do with that. Briggs had a well connected manager during that time.He was close to Larry Hazzard,the state comissioner. You do the math.