Modern Vs Old fighters.

I think some older fighters hold up great when you adjust for weight cutting and steroids etc. You don't necessarily need to be juiced to be competitive. I think Langford and Joe Louis would be extremely competitive at their natural weight classes in any era, for example. I think you have to evaluate it case by case and legitimately take into consideration how the fighter existed within their time period and how that time period allowed them to flourish and or inhibited their overall stature in a head to head context. History takes context. Would FMJ been able to have been 50-0 if he had an Archie Moore schedule? No. Would Jermain Taylor have been a champ if he was sharing the ring with Fullmer and Basilio? Who knows, but I think not. But I also think some older heavyweights of 180-190 lbs would struggle with Hopkins, who Taylor holds two 'wins' over. It's context like this that goes into evaluating potential successes of fighters in disparate eras in boxing. Not just size but schedule, science, smarts, technique as well as what you can see with your eyes on tape, or read in newspapers.

 

This forum has been going on for quite some time before your arrival, and the issues you raise have been discussed time and time again. Why don't you go back and read what others have posted about the subject before you render an opinion about what other people don't realize. Your comments are obvious. Study up on what has already been posted about the topic on other threads and then come back with something new.

 

The size of gloves and the attached thumbs were huge. Led to vast stylistic changes. You didn't have to teach active defense- "hold your hands up" became the new being "defensively responsible."
The change from leather to rubber sole shoes has been the biggest change. ****ed proper footwork straight up.
If you think that a luxurious way of life makes a better fighter....clueless.

 

You said this so much better than I could, ty!

Overall, today's fighters may be bigger & healthier, but the old timers had moves that were so well ingrained through actually fighting! There is no better way to internalize these things - that's why boxing has gone waaaay downhill skill-wise, and that's why the old timers would kick massive ass today.

 

Of course. But they’d have to adjust. Whereas the TS is implying that modern guys are way more fitter. They’re not. And we can clearly see that. The modern guys don’t all take advantage of what’s available to them. Many of them have to shed a significant amount of weight before they fight, in camps of a significant period. Many of them aren’t in top shape all year round, where most of them fight between 2-4 times per year. Many of today’s HW’s are overweight on fight night, where many of them could be lighter.

It’s just more ignorance to assume that everything modern is better.

The real advantage for today’s fighters is that they’re not fighting every other month like they used to years ago. So that is obviously hugely beneficial when looking at their long term health after they’ve retired. But I would say that generally, the old guys were fitter than today’s guys. They may not have had sports science and state of the art gyms, but they had more dedication and more fights, where they had to be in great physical shape all year, and not just for a small section of it.

 

I'm not saying, that today's boxers are better or fitter than the oldtimers!

All I'm saying, is that the idea, that modern boxers would find it more difficult to go 15 rounds (if that was required of them) than the oldtimers, is pure fantasy.

 

Uh Wilder vs Spzilka?

 

Here is an easy fix to your ignorance.

Watch Archie Moore, Watch Canelo Alvarez.

One isn't like the other.

 

2 Points.

1 - RECORDED History, in other words, it's already done, Documented & Recorded, they, the Old Fighters have already done it!

2 - Weight(s), it's NOT just 'weight' it is HEIGHT & Size that has changed. an OLD HW, today is a L-HW, and with respect to the 210 lb either side of 6' 2" fighter today, given MONTHS to Cut Weight & fight in the Division of his 'choice' - in this example, L-HW, some fighters fight even lower, S-MW & MW even.

So the OLD Fighters who were fighting NEAR to their Natural Weights and their HEIGHT differences & Overall Statures, one verses the other, was quite minimal - usually around 2 inches of each other (the Minority of Exceptions excluded)...

so Dozens & Hundreds of Fights, often stepping up a Division or Two, where there Statures were REPORTABLY Noticeable, was a normal day at the Office for many a Top Fighter... today not so much with 17 Weight Divisions.

So as stated plenty by me, and others too... is RJJ keeping the same success in the 1940s where he is every inch a L-HW cum HW, fighting every month against, the Conn's, Moore's, Mills', Charles', JJW's and Joe Louis' and Dozens of other TOP Fighters too, over 15 - 18 years and 125 - 200 fights.

NO, is the answer, RJJ's TARVER comes along a lot Sooner & OFTEN throughout his Career... which changes everything.

Today's RJJ's, then, might never even have known the TOP Ranks and landed in the heap of just another fighter.

the same is TRUE For ALL TODAY verses Yesteryear.

1 - RECORED & Proven History (Old fighters)
2 - their (Today's Fighters), STATURE moving 'most' of them automatically into a Higher Weight Division or TWO if back then!

(3) and of course, double & triple the Fight Scheduals they'd have to fight.

there is NO Old vs New, without these 2 (3) Documented Historical FACTS Considered in!

the Old Fighters DID IT, 'Most' of Todays HAVEN'T, nor have they come anywhere near it.

 

I have no real issue with what you’re saying.

The point is:

Many fighters today would struggle - as they currently are.

We would have to see different, fitter versions of them where they’d need to make adjustments to be able to fight for 15 rounds.

Yes, if they had to, of course they could.

However, the fact that many of today’s guys would need to do such things in order to adjust, just highlights that it’s completely ignorant to just assume that today’s guys are fitter superior.

It’s the assumption that is ignorant.

People automatically assume that newer = better. (not yourself)

Whilst I agree with you, I still wouldn’t say that it’s a fantasy to say that the modern fighter would find it harder.

Even if we still had 15 round bouts today, the older guys were more used to it, as they fought far more frequently.

Many of today’s guys would be fighting 15 rounds, 2/3 times per year, after needing to shed more weight, after prolonged lay offs.

They’d be fresher and healthier, but I would say that it’d be more difficult for them than what it would be for a guy who’d done it far more frequently.

 

Why would today's fighters need to change into different, fitter versions of themselves, if they wanted to be able to fight for 15 rounds? Are you saying that, generally speaking, modern champions enter the ring in less than top shape - because they only need to go 12 rounds? And if their fights were scheduled for 15... they would train harder and be even better conditioned?

The best fighters today spend many weeks, if not months, to prepare for a big fight - and will no doubt do everything they can, to show up in the best possible shape. The difference between 12 and 15 rounds, is obviously the way you pace yourself! Today you can let it all hang out in the 11th and 12th rounds... while over the old championship distance, you'd have to wait a few more rounds, before you did that.

 

They would have to adapt and change their training methods at least a little bit.

Fighting 3 rounds in amateur game is different than fighting 5 rounds WSB type fights, then 6-8 rounders in the pros and eventually 10-12 rounds - in the same way as training for 100 meter dash is different than 400 meter dash, 800 meter, 5k and eventually marathon.

I think some of the more explosive athlethes would struggle more - as more of an endurance types would have a bit more time and room to make their best asset work.
It would benefit certain athlethes and be disadvantage for others.

 

They might also shade their training more toward stamina than power, but the difference would be minor. And that wouldn't mean they're better conditioned; just differently conditioned.

 

Then why do the new guys generally seem to display worse stamina issues. Even with the help of the S&C coaches. I just don't see it. They don't even have to go 15 anymore.