How has your all time heavyweight list changed over the past 10-15 years? Mine: 1. Jack Dempsey used to be in my top 5 since i am a huge fan of his style and speed. I am still a big fan. But given his actual accomplishments, i cannot rank him top 5 or even top 10. The failiure to meet some serious top contenders and the general lack of activity during his title reign mean its difficult for me to rank him higher than far more accomplish champions. He has gone from my #5 to not being in my top 10. Still top 15 for me. 2. Jack Johnson used to sneak into my top 10. He would struggle to crack my top 15 today. He is historically a very important figure but his title reign was worse tha Dempsey's. His refusal to defend his title vs Langford + his weird defensive skills of picking punches in the air would not work against a multi combination puncher like Louis or Holyfield. He is neither top 10 on ability nor accomplishments. Not even close. 3. Lennox Lewis has climbed up my list. Although i am not a fan, he is very accomplished and beat a lot of very good fighters. He is one of the most accomplished champions. Sure, Holyfield and Tyson were past it by the times those match ups happened but wins over Ruddock, Tua, Mercer, Morrison, Briggs, Bruno and yes, Vitali are all very good wins. His quality of opposition is better than majority of my top 10. He has claimed up to #6 on my list. How it hasn't changed: 1. Ali and Louis are still my #1 and #2. Holmes is still my #3. 2. Wlad does not make my top 10. I don't care how long his reign was. I found his reign highly unimpressive. I detest his style of excessive holding and IMO he should have been DQ'd multiple times for this. I know on paper Wlad would beat some of my top 10 (especially Marcino) but i simply don't rank him as an elite heavyweight. 3. Mike Tyson still makes my top 10. Despite his short prime, and him quitting vs Holyfield, and his lack of dedication in his post prison fights, Tyson accomplished a lot in 7 short years with just 1 loss. He is the greatest combination puncher since Joe Louis (and second best overall), had one punch power in both hands, had elite defense in his prime best (85-88), had an elite chin and exceptional hand and foot speed. I think Tyson beats the best version of Lewis (i rank Lewis higher due to accomplishments) and i would favour Tyson h2h over half my top 10. 4. Fury hasn't done enough to earn a top 10 spot even though i like him a lot. If he had not been inactive and had he defended his title 6 or more times, he would likely be in there. My current all time top 10: 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Larry Holmes 4. George Foreman 5. Sonny Liston 6. Lennox Lewis 7. Evander Holyfield 8. Joe Frazier 9. Rocky Marciano 10. Mike Tyson
Mine has shifted just slightly. I don't remember how I used to have it past maybe #3, and the top three are still the same. Ali, Louis, Holmes. Lewis moved up to #4 now, and Jack Johnson has probably moved down. Marciano has moved up a bit, but clearly top ten. Liston somewhere around 8-9, something like that. Wlad, who knows. Too modern for me to care.
I've never had any such lists, and if I did it wouldn't change, it would only have fighters added as time passes, never any removed.
I think you focus too much on his title reign, while some of his best work was as a contender. I don't think you can find 15 HW boxers with better, deeper resume than him. I guess you may dislike his style, but at this point his overall resume can't be disputed. He was the best fighter in the world for such a long time.
Don't fall into that trap. He was never the best fighter in the world. That is reserved for non-heavyweights.
Well, he wasn't the most skilled or the best p4p in the world, but HWs are the best fighters in the world. Floyd was inarguably greater fighter than Wlad, but he wouldn't beat him in 100 tries.
Liking your post, liking it alot, very thought out, nicely put together, almost word perfect, all your observations and criteria I wholeheartedly agree with, and this post/topic is long overdue, props to you buddy. The top ten you profur is aligned with my own, which as ( unlike thistle, who I admire immensely ) undoubtedly changed over the decades, how can it not ? stay safe buddy.
For me: Ali still the king. Holmes #2. Lewis high as 3. Foreman right there, #4. Joe Louis down a bit for me at #5, but #2 as an "influence guy". Holyfield up to 6. Wlad in and high at 7. Tyson 8, Frazier 9, Liston 10. Dempsey, Johnson both out in favor of keeping Frazier and Liston. Marciano left knocking at the door, #11. Most of these were changes of position, but only one new name.
Genuine question, I love Frazier as much as the next guy but how does he make your guys top 10? I admire his resume, but I feel like he lacked too many facets of a boxer to match up very well against other ATG historically. Beyond his indomitable will and earth-shattering left hook and amazing head movement, I see him as rather one dimensional... He has some great wins but I would be lying if I said his inability to avenge his losses didn't hurt his legacy to me.
Holyfield up to number 3 all time, from number 4. And, lately, I'm giving some serious thought to moving Joe Louis to #1.
Wlad has shot up over the last 15 years for sure. That's the main thing. Foreman lower as well. In terms of purely achievement he comes high with his fantastic feat of winning back the title at 45, but I tend to look more at what a fighter did at his best nowadays.
