Was Ali really still a great fighter when he beat Earnie Shavers?

Ali was behind on points and gifted an undeserved decision.

 

Shavers ain't even top 5 all time in terms of punching power.

 

Actually, Shavers only landed a handful of flush good shots.

 

Shavers deserved the nod

 

Yeah, a few people have that opinion. I thought Ali won but haven’t watched the entire fight through for a long time.

I understand the contentions pivot on Shavers’ power shots vs Ali’s more frequent but much less powerful punches. Also, people question what punches actually landed for Ali as opposed to those caught on the gloves.

For what it’s worth, Shavers said he agreed that Ali won. But someone might only use Shavers’ quote if they thought Ali won in their own eyes anyway. Such a quote in itself doesn’t support an opinion, it merely aligns with or refutes an opinion formed from the all important vision.

If Norton, for instance had said (hypothetically) that he lost the rubber to Ali, that statement in its own right wouldn’t make me believe it to be so. I’d say Kenny, you crazy man, you won by a mile. LOL.

As it stands, until rewatch, I do think Ali won a close but clear decision over Earnie, the latter having still posted an excellent performance.

 

You were behind on points and gifted an undeserved diploma.

 

Opinion of decision aside, I completely disagree with that observation - which actually appears at odds with your belief that Shavers won - those (more than a handful) monster punches kept Earnie in the hunt. They were huge, damn nearly tore Ali’s head off.

 

Foreman and Liston didn't land any flush punches on Ali either, apparently.

 

Muhammad Ali was already shot by the time he was ready to face Earnie Shavers he did have the experience and reserves to remain somewhat competitive against serious opposition but not quite good enough as demonstrated in the Ken Norton rubbermatch and with Jimmy Young. Shavers was effectively fighting the remnants of Ali also I wonder if Shavers may have held back a bit and taken it easy on Ali considering they had been friends and Ali had done alot to support Shavers throughout his boxing career even though Shavers desperately wanted an opportunity to fight for the title that must have subconsciously to effected him similarly as it did Larry Holmes three years later in 1980. Ali trained extremely hard from February 1978 to September 1978 for his rematch with Leon Spinks and gave all he had left however if that had been a rematch with a more experienced professional I don't think he would have won that one or even if when Spinks gained the title Butch Lewis would have been able to keep him disciplined and focused between winning the title and the rematch.

 

Yes, the 15th round is beautiful. I didn't call the entire fight beautiful. I think Shavers didn't do enough to get the nod and this win is one I feel Ali earned. I think the fight was relatively close and if we are going to list Ali's gift wins, Shavers doesn't make my list, I think both men fought a good fight and the right man got the decision.

Exactly this, Shavers was facing a legendary opponent. His camp must've been comprehensive to say the least and even with the greatest conditioning of his life, Shavers style of fighting always required a wealth of stamina. I don't think you can punch as hard as Shavers (and with as poor accuracy and poor set up granted, sorry Earnie I still love you) and not be gassed by the 15th, I just don't think it's realistic.

Shavers was no doubt was aware of his own stamina problems, and of Ali's ability to outlast his opponents. That is the crux of this fight. Ali intentionally held onto his reserves until the 15th when Shavers had been pushed to his limits. I think Shavers UD loss to Ali still elevates his resume, he put on a great performance, and even if you feel Shavers was robbed, then the hypothetical loss still elevates Ali's resume imo. He went 15 rounds with what definitively be, punch for punch, the heaviest hitter of all time.

 

JT I know you're referencing someone on this forum who said that, who is it? lol

Man this is what I'm saying, regardless of who got the win, both fighters put on a extremely disciplined and thoroughly entertaining fight and elevated the legacies of two fighters. Shavers was supremely paced, as I said in my response and you mentioned too, the entire fight hinges on stamina and Earnie knows he is liable to gas out. How in the hell Earnie made it to the 15th without collapsing from exhaustion I have no idea and to be frank I don't think he does either, cause that's the only time he crossed 12 rounds.

Shavers gave his all for this fight and Ali put on a class of a fight that he seldom did. This is one of my favorite fights for both men.

 

Well, I think we came up with quite a bit different conclusions from this fight. I see this as Ali finally reaching the point when he could no longer dominate lower level fighters and Shavers couldn't take advantage of it. The fight was ugly to watch.

 

Shavers is low level?

 

Lower level than those who usually challenged Ali.