Was Ali really still a great fighter when he beat Earnie Shavers?

Totally see your point. Shavers right very earlier in the fight without set up - just boom!

Not selling the Frazier KD - just as an isolated highlight, I just want to link the clearest vision of that KD, the power of punch and impact best translated per the rear camera perspective.

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Courtesy of Smooth Legends of course.

 

In due balance and since the subject is actually Ali vs Shavers, here is an excerpt from round 2 when Earnie rocked Ali to his heels - and though delaying his follow up for a second or two - Earnie still belts Ali on the ropes causing him to move off quick smart only to be caught by a a few more killer right hands from Shavers - no question, Earnie landed some of his best flush shots over the course of the whole fight - and Earnie was a very worthy challenger:-

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I've re-watched the match recently, for me Shavers clearly deserved the nod.
He landed the big punches and most of what he landed was clean.
Ali barely landed any power shots and most of his punches hit Shavers's guard or didn't do any damage whatsoever.

 

Watch the fight again and you will see I am right.

 

Round 1: 10-9 Ali.
He edged it by being more active, although nothing much happened.

Round 2: 10-9 Shavers. You could even make a case for 10:8
A clear round for Shavers. He landed a few nice clean shots (6:37, 7:57, 8:25-8:30, replay at 9:30-9:40)

Round 3: 10-10, or a slight edge for Shavers winning 10-9
Neither did much. Ali danced uselessly at the beginning of the round and attempted some jabs. Towards the end, he threw some punches, but they hit Shavers's guard. As for Shavers, he mostly landed body taps, but a few of his jabs din land clean on Ali's face, so he has a slight edge.

Round 4: 10-9 Shavers.
Both attempted a few jabs at the beggining of the round, neither had much success. Most of the time, Shavers was just following Ali around the ring, and they mostly clinched when they got close. Ali hit Shavers's guard a few times, and Shavers went for Ali's body. Towards the end of the round Shavers landed a nice left jab and a good overhand right, both punches landing clean on Ali (16:16, 16:28, replay at 17:28). He attempted another right, but Ali leaned back. Nonetheless, Shavers gets the nod.

Round 5: 10:9 Ali
Ali started dancing and firing jabs, but they were mostly taps that didn't do any damage whatsoever. He mixed in the occasional right hand and towards the end of the round he let his hands go a bit, but they were just tappy taps. Shavers tried to counter and hit a few rights to Ali's body. Overall a boring round with nothing major landed on either part. Ali gets the nod cause he was more active.

Round 6: 10-9 Shavers.
Another boring round. Ali tried to rest, either by laying on the ropes or by leaning on Shavers in the middle of the rin, while keeping his guard up. Shavers didn't bite the bait of the rope-a-dope, and the ref had to intervene a few times. Shavers landed a few body shots and overall was more active, so he gets the nod.

Round 7: 10:9 Shavers.
Earnie landed a nice right hand at the beginning of the round (26:25), followed by a few decent jabs. Ali tried to tire Shavers, but Shavers wasn't dumb. Ali let his hands go a bit, but it was Shavers who managed to land another 2 good shots (28:03, 28:20).
Shavers also edged this round.

Round 8: 10-9 Shavers or 10-10
Ali only had a few jabs at the beginning of the round and he let his hands go a bit in the second half of the round, but only in 1 or 2 shorts bursts, and he simply hit Shavers's guard.
Shavers threw a few jabs of his own, some body shots, and few good shots on Ali's face.
None of them did much damage, but Shavers looked a bit better and was the aggressor.

Round 9: 10:10 or perhaps 10:9 Ali.
One of the worst round in boxing history, an absolute joke. Ali tried to shove his left into Shavers's face. Shavers grabbed Ali and tried to get him from laying on the ropes. The ref warned Shavers. What for, no one knows, the ref's an idiot.
Shavers mostly taps Ali's guard and body. Even a 10 year old could have withstood those poor excuses for punches.
Ali let his hands go a little, but mostly hit Shavers's guard.

Round 10: 10:9 Ali
Both opened up and let their hands go, but they mostly swing wild and miss. They manage to find their target a bit towards the middle of the round, but nothing major. Ali had a bit more success with his left, so he slightly edges it.

Round 11: 10-10 or 10:9 Ali
Ali tried to press the gas. He tried to dance and let his hands go. Overall, Ali threw more punches, but they din nothing, they just hit Shavers's guard.
Shavers tried to counter, but mostly swung at air, yet he managed to land a good straight right hand at 44:05, which gave a brief initiative, while he pushed Ali into a corner.
Neither really deserves the nod in this round, but you could somewhat make a case for Ali being more active.

Round 12: 10:10
Both managed to land clean a few times while they were near a corner of the ring and overall they engaged a more (47:20-47:35). Shavers lands another straight right at 48:11. They threw more punches towards the end also.
Overall an even round, neither dominated.

Round 13: 10-9 Shavers
50:12 - clean right hands from Shavers. 51:35 and 51:50 were also good rights from Shavers.
52:13 - another great right hand from Shavers.
Clear win for Shavers this round.

Round 14: 10-9 Shavers or 10:10
For the first time in the fight, Ali has Shavers in a bit of trouble at the beginning of the round. Shavers fired back.
Ali falls down, but I feel it's more of a slip than it was due to a Shavers punch.
Shavers finishes the round strong and hits Ali a bit.
Shavers gets the nod this round.

Round 15: 10-10
Shavers gives it his all, and although he missed a lot, he also landed some nice ones (59:38, 59:46).
Ali has his moments too: 1:00:52.
Overall an even round.

It is quite clear to me after watching this fight again and being as objective as I can that:
Shavers won 5 rounds (2,4,6,7,13), Ali won 4 rounds (1,5,10,11) and they drew the rest.
However, of the even rounds, Shavers dominated more and probably could have got the nod.
Overall, a clear win for Shavers. He was the aggressor most of the time and he landed the big shots.

In the most optimistic result for Ali, he won 5 rounds: 1, 5, 9, 10, 11.
In the most optimistic case for Shavers, he won 8 rounds: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 13, 14.

 

You have been right less often than a broken clock. Your takes are terrible and provide nothing but comic relief.

 

This is interesting and makes me want to watch the fight again. I just can't agree on the 15th round scoring, though. Shavers was at one point nearly out on his feet.

 

Watched it again earlier and even though Ali was totally exhausted,I can't give him less than eight rounds.

 

In the most optimistic result for Ali, I have him winning won 5 rounds (1, 5, 9, 10, 11), no more than that.

 

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Even Ali's biggest detractors would give him the fifteenth round.

 

Ali had a better chin than Holmes even from old. Shavers hit him harder than Holmes imo. So I think until Shavers he still was the best. After him unfortunately begun the first signs of Parkinson and it was all another story.

 

I appreciate the posting of your scores though I disagree that Shavers won. Just my opinion. For one thing, Ali won the 15th imo, almost had Earnie out by fights end - which you curiously didn’t mention in your notes for that round. You have a lot of even rounds (7) - I try to steer clear of same but understand that it is sometimes too close to call and an even round on occasion is the most just assessment.

 

This clown really scored the 15th a draw.

 

Interesting.

You think Shavers hit Ali harder than he hit Holmes. Is that in the whole sense - Earnie certainly landed a lot more flush shots on Ali than he did Larry.

How would you compare the round 2 right hand vs Ali to the round 7 right hand vs Holmes?

I’d say in its own right the punch on Holmes was perhaps bit harder, compounded by Larry moving into the punch also but the Ali shot was a screamer also - the difference between the two punches not pronounced at all.

It’s often omitted that Holmes was clearly hurt earlier in round 7. He was beginning to come back to normal but I think he was still fighting hurt a bit (his movement wasn’t completely fluid) when Shavers caught him with the big right hand.

We know Holmes only went down a few times prior to the Tyson fight but boy, when Larry went down, he went down hard.

Arguably more hurt when Snipes dropped him - poor Larry staggered back up only to crash head first into the turnbuckle. Holmes had an incredible instinct to rise back up no matter what - and a hurt Holmes was an even more dangerous Holmes - see his fight back against Tim Witherspoon, round 9 - ATG stuff imo.