Sonny Liston's standing as an ATG if he got his title shot earlier?

No different. He gets a lot of mileage for beating the guys Patterson didn't fight. He is sort of an ex-post facto people's champ for historians.

 

Moves up quite a bit IF he beats the same people he did before winning the title which is a big if, given the drop in dedication when he won the title.

 

This sums it up.

 

Honestly I mainly made that post because it opens the door for a hypothetical scenario where Williams knocks out a complacent Liston for the title.

 

I should have known!

 

Third time's the charm!

 

Or just another two rounds!

 

You really think Williams would've knocked Liston out in 2??!! I mean I'm not going to disagree but I think Liston could make it to 5 at least.

 

Yes and sometime after that he repels Clay when he comes along, KO3. He doesn't dodge the draft and racks up extra defenses before pole axing Frazier with a leaping left hook set up by a blinding quadruple jab. He racks up his cue after breaking Louis' record and lived happily ever after.

~Charles Perrault

 

The guys best win would still either be Machen or Patterson. Hysterical to think people make him out to be King Kong and a top ten HW. Folks like fiction.

 

It be like the queries in of those statistical probability threads - how many fights in a series would be required before underdog Y eventually beats favourite X?

Liston being the X-Man of course (non-mutant but with crazy big fists and “almost” freakishly long arms pushing the boundaries of “normal”).

Now Cleve, all be they losses, already had two fights under his belt vs Liston. Great.

The leaning curve and probability journey had already begun. Statistically, every fail is one step closer to success and the brass ring.

Proof? Glad you asked. First fight LKO3. Second fight LKO2. Wait, that’s trending in the wrong direction.

Okay, give me some more time to work on another angle to hypothesise ultimate success for the Big Cat against the Bear.

 

There is also Folley KO 3, Big Cat KO3 and KO 2, KO 1 Wayne Bethea (who was never even knocked down before or since) among other notable wins. Liston CLEANED out the division before crushing Patterson in 2 first round, back to back KO victories - total ring time for those fights - 4 mins and 14 seconds. For the purposes of comparison, WHO ever else did that to Floyd or even came close to doing same? Break it down.

 

I admire your dedication, but Williams would likely always lose against Liston.