Who's Greater Canelo or Ward

Canelo has the volume no doubt about that but with two schoolings in his losses to Mayweather and Bivol I have to rate Ward higher .

 

When you take risks, when you put yourself at considerable weight disadvantages in order to make big fights to challenge yourself against the best, you run the risk of losing. Canelo took calculated risks in fighting Mayweather and Bivol, and he ended up losing close competitive decisions, not "schoolings".

Ward never took the kind of risks Canelo took, and he didn't show the desire to put the sport on his shoulders and take the sport to new heights like Canelo has. When you talk about greatness, it's more than just wins and losses. It's your desire to be great and take risks in order to challenge yourself. No one expected Ward to retire after beating Kovalev. He could have gone on and continued to fight and carve out his legacy. Ward chose to walk away from the sport. That was his decision, but you can't turn around and say he's greater after walking away when he could have fought on.

 

For what ever reasons Ward chose to walk away that’s his decision and his alone and I agree with you in that he should have fought on,where I do beg to differ is the two losses Canelo suffered to both Mayweather and Bivol,they where not close and competitive despite how the score cards would have us believe they where clear cut losses and like mentioned the score cards did not give a true representation of how the fights actually went .Then there are the facts that Canelo vacated the WBC belt to delay the GGG fight and also his numerous fights held at a catch weight . Money is also the boss in Boxing and Canelo has had a few decisions go his way because of this (Trout Lara GGG).

 

It's important to keep in mind that in his fights at catchweights he was the one at a disadvantage. In the case of Chavez Jr, he was moving up 10 lbs from the highest weight he ever fought at. The 155 non-title fights were not significant one way or another because neither fighter was drained. There's a difference when a catchweight is done to bring a fighter down below his normal weight. It wasn't like Canelo gained any advantage by having those catchweights. The catchweight fights where a title was involved were done due to opponent demands. Fans act as though all catchweights are the same. If you have a problem with catchweights then you might as well throw out the Mayweather fight which was his only loss until he fought Bivol.

I wouldn't disagree that the losses to Mayweather and Bivol were clear cut losses, but they were still very competitive and close. People like to exaggerate how one-sided they were. If we're honest, neither of those losses were bad losses. You could make the argument that Ward should have lost to Kovalev the first time. Lets not forget, Ward was knocked down by Kovalev and was clearly out of sorts in the early rounds. Canelo was never in that kind of trouble that Ward was vs Kovalev in either of his losses to Mayweather or Bivol. In fact, early on he was doing a lot better than Ward did vs Kovalev early on. The difference is Ward came on in the 2nd half of the fight whereas Canelo faded vs Mayweather and Bivol. But the fact still stands that Ward was clearly in more trouble vs Kovalev than Canelo ever was, and Canelo was ready to fight early on whereas Ward wasn't. I think that's the essence of the difference between Ward and Canelo. Canelo was better prepared and ready to fight from the opening bell whereas Ward faced some adversity early on vs Kovalev but then made some big adjustments. But if we're honest, Canelo proved himself in big fights vs better competition a lot more times than Ward has. That's really the ultimate measure of greatness.

 

Kessler like Arturo Gatti has chiseled, manly facial features, might make more attractive to the ladies and a more intriguing target for a gay sex attack, but in the ring, it leaves him vulnerable to cuts and lacerations. Headbutts and elbows only make the cuts even more inevitable.

 

My friend The CSAC didn't actually lie. If you were at the hearing like I was you'd know.. They omitted to say anything about there being plaster in the wrap, ignored the lies by Richardson & the CSAC Insp Louhis You know the ones about "PLASTER BLOCKS & WHITE PLASTER LIKE SUBSTANCE " SMEARED ON THE PAD" All they actually said was " We BELIEVE Antonio Margarito tried to load his gloves & are therefore suspending there boxing licences in California. The State Commission run the sport they can ban whoever they want from boxing there
I honestly wish they had indicted Tony because they'd have been laughed out of court & Tony would be a very rich young man
BTW Trainer Capetillo who accidently put the used harmless pad in the wrap never really stopped training with fighters
Boxing today is far more corrupt than ever it was in the 50s when the Mob ran it The State commissions took over from the mob & run the sport they don't have to hide their missdeeds

 

Well, knowing you're a Canelo fan, I do appreciate the honesty to acknowledge and take into account that Canelo did have several controversial fights. However, I still think it's Canelo, due to depth of resume:

Canelo has fought: Floyd, GGG x 3, Bivol, Cotto, Lara, BJS, Trout, Plant, Kovalev, Smith, Jacobs, Mosley

Ward fought: Kessler, Froch, Kovalev x 2, Dawson, Abraham, Dirrell

Yes, Canelo lost a few there and Ward is supposedly undefeated (although most including me thought he lost to Kovalev first time around), but I got to respect the fact that Canelo has fought an incredible list of names.

 

The correct scoring of Canelo - Floyd & Canelo - Bivol fights according to reports would be 118-110 for both with Canelo getting schooled Theyre not "close fights"

 

They were a hell of a lot closer than Canelo GGG 3.

 

Did Margarito actually feel one of the confiscated knuckle pads at the CSAC hearing and admit that he felt something hard?

Did Capetillo admit that the confiscated pads violated the applicable rules, and acknowledged that had they been used, they could have seriously injured Moseley?

You besmirch the State Commissions saying they took over from the mob and don't have to hide their misdeeds.
Well i am not going to get in a general debate with you on that, as that is taking this thread off topic, however on the matter of the CSACs decision regarding Margarito, did not the Superior Court side with the CSAC on their actions, or is the Superior Court part of your besmirching too?

 

Absolute poppycock & you know it

 

1... No Tony did not admit it felt hard it was an old used pad it was not soft like a new one
2... All Javier Capetillo admitted to was that he accidently put a used pad in the wrap & not a new one as it should have been. A technical fault at best. They were of no danger to Mosely as the independant lab deemed them HARMLESS to any opponent & this was months after the actual event.
3...The Superior court nor any court were involved at all The whole railroading was the work of the CSAC The Commission
They stated they believed he MAY have tried to load his gloves & therefore they were suspending him & his trainer.. No Proof just Suspicion.
Tell me honestly do you really believe boxing today is corrupt ??
The majority of fans do Have you ever seen a referee or a judge hauled up before the commission to explain ludicrous officiating & scorecards??? No not one

 

Canelo. Ward wouldn't even leave his back yard & at least cinnamon doesnt dry hump his opposition...

 

Let's see Ward go up 5 divisions & a fight a SMW equivalent of Floyd & Bivol instead of dry humping face first Carl Froch