Since it is Halloween Season, Sonny Liston, Joe Louis,Ingo show up at your front door in prime form.

? Anyways. Louis > Liston. Hush.

 

The other problem for Sonny, he was everyone’s fall guy.

Due to his past, if something went wrong or awry or simply not how people wanted, it HAD to be Liston’s fault or associated with Liston in some way.

Whatever exact past Liston did have, I’m sure there were inventions, fabrications and exaggerations thrown into the mix.

One poster has just stated that he doesn’t know if Liston was guilty of a particular form of negative conduct, - but given other things Liston was guilty of (or accused of doing) they ASSUME Liston would’ve been guilty of wife beating also, sans any evidence.

You can see the obviously irrational patterns involved in that type of BS thinking.

Just a few examples of Sonny being framed as the FALL GUY:-

Miami - Ali accidentally gets lineament in his eyes. Instant conclusion: Liston was dipping his gloves in order to deliberately blind Ali

Even better, several of Liston’s previously vanquished opposition retroactively claimed that Liston dipped the gloves against them also - to excuse their losses.

Plenty of evidence to reflect a shoulder injury and straight up and down surrender in the first Ali fight. But no, it HAD to be mob related - a fix (to this day not one ounce of evidence to back that claim).

I mean, every fighter who takes a dive takes somewhat of a beating, lands his own hard punches, throwing sufficiently hard to exacerbate an existing shoulder issue - yes, Miami screamed fix, didn’t it?

Lewiston Maine - a number of players contributed to that shambles but when the smoke cleared - it was ALL Liston’s doing - and it was Liston ONLY who carried the stigma thereafter.

It was actually “criminal” the way Liston was avoided, his due title shot delayed.

And those who wouldn’t let Liston in - think about this: I’m sure you’d let Patterson in, lauding the man as a true gentleman and good person.

Correct, Floyd was - and he gave Sonny the time of day and believed there was good in him….if you respect Patterson so much, and remember Louis was Sonny’s friend also, then take a leaf…..

 

That's a great post. Rich's halloween thread has morphed into being quite an educational one regarding Liston and his supposed reputation!!!!!!

 

Sonny was really a product of his times. He had no childhood at all, ran wild until he found boxing in prison. He was then funded by bad people. Trouble is, he trusted and understood only the people that society says are bad people. Sonny didn’t entirely reform because he wound up back in prison after boxing had already gave him a lifeline. But Sonny knew nobody else. He was suspicious of what was then seen as decent society. And loyal to the people moving his career. Outside of that, and the criminal slip ups he had because of the company he kept, he could be an okay guy. He was never going to be as comfortable being a famous person as a lot of other famous people were with similar backgrounds who could reform and mix within the respectable classes. I think Floyd Patterson understood this and was sympathetic of it. As I guess the boxing fraternity would have been. But social pressures and expectations were different then for those who did not seem to help themselves.

 

That was perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever seen on this forum. Imagine trying to use it in court.

Judge: So you're charging the defendant with one count of domestic assault. Where's your evidence that Mr. Charles Liston committed this crime?

Prosecutor: Well I don't exactly have any "evidence" so to speak but Liston robbed a bank when he was a teenager, that has to count for something. Right?.... Right?........ Anyone?

 

There's plenty on record saying he could be a bit more than an "ok guy" chok. Live a little, take a risk......break the cycle!!!!!

 

Thanks JT - not trying to get up on a podium and pontificate, but you can see how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer - in a sociological sense, figuratively speaking..

Another thing to consider is that it is easy to talk to the talk - some might say they’d let Liston in because it does figure to be the right and moral thing to do - but come crunch time, maybe they wouldn’t.

So, even though I disagree with their embargo, I respect the honesty of those who would actually stand by that position - as opposed to those who are just providing lip service and saying what they believe to sound more acceptable but perhaps wouldn’t put it into practice.

Liston is the ONLY boxer ever involved in one of my dreams. Strange.

We were simply hanging out together - though every now and then Liston would stop and say he had an “errand” to attend to - he would then enter a random house, be gone for 5-10 minutes and then re-emerge - and we would just walk around talking until his next “errand”..

LOL, suffice to say I didn’t ask Sonny what these errands were about. We were just chilling otherwise.

That is without word of lie - and as much as I could remember of the dream.

During his stay in hospital, Poor Rich M “saw” Sonny as an attending nurse or tech.

Can you imagine Liston proffering a bed pan and commanding “Take a sh*t!!”.

You tell Sonny that you already did, the second he walked into your room.

Rich could’ve also asked Sonny the famous Bear in the woods question…but I don’t know that it would’ve been good policy.

Hahaha!

 

And all jokes aside this is a common problem. Some just assume, others want it to be true in their quest to whine and disparage and some just never look hard enough to get to the truth which is a crying shame really. Thankfully most on this forum are really well educated and nuanced when it comes to boxers and their backgrounds and it's up to these posters to educate others.

 

Absolutely!

Judge to bailiff: who’s up next?

Bailiff to Judge: Charles Liston.

Judge: Guilty as charged, whatever those charges be. Next……

 

Oh come on, you don't crave the odd bit of podium power.........even a little?

But yes.

I'm not sure if i'd call that a dream, or a nightmare! But Sonny going into all those houses and signing autographs for the children is mighty impressive, to say the least.

 

Yes, that is exactly Liston was doing.

Those wads of cash he came out with must’ve meant those kids paid a pretty penny for his signature.

Ah yes, podium power. Guilty as charged.

And, preferably with the fringe benefits, just like in the Police Academy movies.

That would give rise to lots of involuntary, ill placed inflexions during one’s sermon, before hitting the be all, end all, climatic point - a glass shattering crescendo!!!

 

‘Shove off’ no wonder you wouldn’t let Sonny Liston into your house, you’d probably drop dead on the spot out of the smell of a bit of testosterone