Alright, I don't know how seriously the definitive no's are that are thinking this is objectively obvious for Ali (?) but I would edge Hagler in the p4p better sense, even though I rate Ali as being greater. As you mean it, harder to beat at best or more skilled at best, yeah, I edge this to Marvin. Not by as much as the distance I rate Ali being greater in the p4p rankings, I hate to say, but by a touch. When we're talking at the time that both were solidified championship men, and before Ali was just shot but still fighting with the title on the line, to be fair to both Hagler's early losses and Muhammad's late abominations, I think the case for Hagler being just a little better p4p is pretty fair. I've made the case and edited my comment to delete it a few times but let's not get into that. I wasn't in a mood to defend most of what I deleted because I'm going to sleep on it but whatever; that's none of anyone's business.
Ali threw a lazy, slow uppercut from distance and could be very slapping with his hooks. His short range punches look quite good against Quarry - shorter man at reach disadvantage and speed disadvantage. Ali never really liked to fight close up and his proficiency with straight punches sings to his stylistic preference and physical advantages. It's not that I think he couldn't throw them - moreso, that he seemed to have the noncholance of "why use it when I can beat the guy from the outside with the jab and right hand", especially when inside fighting puts him in harm's way.
It was the slappy hooks that I was getting at ; absolutely no leverage at all. I've had kids on the pads and they've thrown right hooks the same way and they remind of a ventriloquist with his hand up a dumny waving it about Just goes to show that even the greatest don't have every punch in the book. Sugar Ray Robinson got outjabbed by LaMotta and Turpin but he never got out hooked.
Yeah, that leads me on to a couple of statements. Ali owes his footwork equally as much to Pep as he does the comparisons with SRR, especially the blading, ducking, weaving and pivoting out of corners and off the ropes in his prime. SRR often abandonned his defence to land the harder, more decisive shot or combinations. Turpin was a sound fighter but I see LaMotta and others catching him with shots I feel Ray could have easily avoided. His style more a desire to want to put on a show than safety first, non-sell out stadium draws of his era. When SRR went to work with the body shots, poetry in motion. Only Louis, Williams, Duran, Naples and punchers of their ilk come close for the variety of downstairs, upstairs. That winging hook body shot looks and is excruciating when it hits you. Ali's slappy hook - the first shot he throws in the Liston I is a slightly off-balance check left hook if I'm not mistaken. The uppercut hook combo to end the Quarry fight was effective, but seldom thrown with the leverage of conviction. I guess he threw them like I might throw a gauging jab, if it lands, great, if it misses it sets something up behind it or at worst stops you from hitting me whilst I can reset my preferred distance/ring position.
I favor Hagler but I rate Ali higher over quality of wins. Funny how in ways they're opposites. Hagler is the rugged worked clocking in n out not getting the praise. Ali was hated in his prime but later into the 70s he started becoming a media darling along w not being known to b "gritty" but dug deep plenty of times. Ali got his embarrassing losses later on whereas Hagler struggled n lost prior to reaching his prime. Still one of the few to leave before his faded years could've become a train wreck. Much respect to both I definitely was drawn more into boxing bcuz of their names.
No, When Muhammad Ali lost, he usually fought a rematch with the fighters who defeated him. I am just curious, why are we comparing champions from different weight classes?
Ali was more skilled at certain things and Hagler was more skilled at more things than he was less skilled. Footwork is a skill and using fast footwork and fast punches to hit and not get hit is a skill. It's not as simple as speed and reflexes are not skills as if you practice and practice them to the point where you can use them to gain advantage over your opponents at will, by definition, this is skill. Ali, Roy, Ray, Floyd reading an opponent's body posture and countering jabs with pull counter is skill, reflex and speed.