His hand speed was very good. He had good foot speed. He wasn’t a dancer like Ali. He didn’t feint a lot. He was a stalker. A guy of that size, with that speed, accuracy and power, would have been dangerous in any era.
I overwhelmingly agree with you here. It is the opposite nonsense of a modernista who I was recently debating with, who basically gave Ali the same odds as any average man against Usyk! Mindless favoritism based upon era, either way. With Ali & his antics, realize that sometimes he was callous & cruel, showed no regard for their feelings liker Joe Frazier-who gave him money & intervened at the highest level to help get his boxing license back... And sometimes it was a harmless show where the other fighter was bemused. He was also an original, with far more charm than his imitators. About Joe Louis & speed: nobody says he had very fast feet. But he was blazing fast with hand speeds & in combinations, fuhgettibout his accuracy. In part due to being smaller, I think you will find him faster in absolute terms than anyone today.
Fair enough, I still thing he would have struggled vs some of their more mobile and slicker HWs of the more recent eras
1. Vitali 2. Ali 3. Fury 4. Foreman 5. Lennox 6. Tyson 7. Dempsey 8. Jeffries 9. Liston 10. Marciano Subject to change
Nobody questioned his hand speed, it was his footspeed and movement that look poor. No modern ATG is gonna stand right in front of Louis to get hit, unlike like the bums from his era.
Of course he would have needed them. Foreman positioned him into place in order to throw his great uppercuts. Wilder doesn’t possess Foreman’s jab, strength or in-fighting abilities. How many times have you seen him throw a good uppercut? Frazier would have been up close on Wilder, glued to his chest. He’d have provided Wilder with a very elusive target.
When I look at Vitali, I am not impressed by his best wins. But he was dominant when winning I give him that. Although there are mitigating circumsatnces, his 2 losses have also to be taken into account especially the one against Lewis where he was not able to beat an old and overweigh Lewis So for me, Vitali does not belong in Top10 head to head
It’s not. It’s no good having a gun without any bullets. Wilder would have needed the perfect opportunity. The time and space. We’re not talking about a 6’6 Helenius walking in a straight line. We’re talking about a 5’10 guy, coming in fast and low, bobbing and weaving. That’s an elusive target to hit. Without possessing the attributes that Foreman had, it would have been very difficult. Go and watch the fights. Watch Foreman use his jab. Watch him manoeuvre him into position. Look at his huge, precise uppercuts, which slowed him down and left him vulnerable to further attacks. Wilder doesn’t fight in that way.
I think he has the physical gifts and style to do very well against the field of heavyweights across all eras. I think his dominant wins over Briggs and Peter are impressive. I think it's entirely possible he could have beaten lewis. I also think his wins over arreola and chisora have aged well. I just have a hard time imagining a lot of clean wins over vitali since they literally never happened. He has 2 losses with asterisks. I really no don't see how he's a more controversial pick than fury or usyk
Doing well and giving anybody a hard time, yes. Beating them, I am not too sure. Briggs was injured an over the hill. Peter is a good win but if that is his best win, it is not overly impressive. Peter was outboxed by middleweight James Toney. Arreola and Chisora are not elite. If Fury beats Usky next year as I expect, I think he will have a strong argument for making the list.
1. Mike Tyson of 88 2. Joe Louis of 38-40 3. Ali of 66 4. Riddick Bowe of 92 5. George Foreman of 73 6. Larry Holmes of 80 7. Lennox Lewis of 98 8. Jack Dempsey with loaded gloves 9. Sonny Liston of 59 10. Tokyo Douglas