Did Ali cheat against Foreman?

Ali got away with grabbing and pulling down on Foreman's head. He should of been DQ'd. Anybody who says anything besides this is either pro Ali or just biased toward Foreman.

 

Log off pal

 

This crossed my mind as well. Don't remember if Wepner was even warned or not, but he did it a lot that night. Pretty amusing seeing Ali return the favor with a few exaggerated rabbit punches of his own.

 

LOL, no retaliation (as in military strike) just a regular post.

Yours is the perfect anecdote to illustrate the many grey areas re rules and so called cheating.

You looked after your guy and your advice was perfectly sound.

I’ll just say, I am relieved you didn’t relate your pep talk to have begun with “We are fireman…….”. Haha.


Anyway, I am sure that situation and advice has been repeated many a time in the sport.

My favourite exchange of fouls on film - Dempsey vs Sharkey.

As they head back to their corners after the round ends, without even looking Dempsey nonchalantly sneaks a small punch to Sharkey’s chops.

A clearly pi**ed Sharkey turns and belts Dempsey back. Again, Dempsey doesn’t even look at Sharkey and keeps walking as if to say “Fair Play”.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. LOL.

 

No cheating...whatever lol

Every champ has done what he had to do to win.

Criticize all you want, but the fight itself may have produced the most impressive win in heavyweight history. George fought a stupid fight and he lost because of it. To me there isn't much more to it.

I always got the feeling that, after the Frazier and Norton wins Foreman was believing his own hype. That he was invincible, and that he could basically win just by showing up and looking mean. Well, that sure didn't work. I personally thought George looked bad and kinda Jethro Bodean-ish through a lot of the fight.

To me, it seemed Ali's Ring IQ was off the charts that night, it was a legitimately brilliant performance he cooked up all on his own.

 

Not to mention the taunting to get inside George’s head to make him further exert himself and also make him feel inadequate to the task, that he was fighting an Ironman who could not be dented.

“That all you got, Sim? You can’t hit any harder than that?”

“C’mon Georgie, don’t let me down: They told me you could punch.”

Imagine Foreman crashing those wrecking balls into Ali’s torso with all his might and getting that in return.

 

St. Pat - you might be able to offer possible examples having worked in the coal face.

To expand the parameters on a boxer being disadvantaged , you will read every now of an outer of town fighter (including out of country) being done no favours even before the fight begins - inequitably poor dressing room/training facilities etc. etc.

Sometimes there is also proactive measures taken to undermine a fighter before he even steps into the ring - stuff that, if it isn’t publicised, is hidden from public view.

Hope that makes sense and wondering if you ever encountered same in general or specifically.

 

And Rucky (hybrid for Chucky/Rocky) also pulled the old step on the foot punch to the body trick for an official KD.

Wepner gaining the same honour as Cooper and Frazier? - something up with that picture.

LOL, some KDs should be retroactively reversed - including that of Marvin Hagler vs Juan Roldan - particularly since it constitutes the only “knock down” of his career - Marv should have a clean slate in that regard.

 

I can’t remember exactly what is was that Ali said - but in the process of denigrating Foreman’s power, Ali actually managed to get Foreman to switch his attention from one flank to another.

So there’s Foreman banging away at Ali’s left side - and yeah, it’s hurting and Ali needs a break from it - so Muhammad says something dismissive to cause Foreman to start banging at the right side.

This is pure invention due to lack of a verbatim quote but it might’ve been something along the lines of , “George, you got nothing on your right hand, what’s your left like?” -

 

Never encountered anything like that myself: now I had fighters come up short in decisions that I thought we should have won on the road against the ‘local’ guy but you kind of know going in that you’d better not leave it to chance if you can help it, but nothing like you’re describing.

I took a fighter to Russia once and didn’t know what to expect but they couldn’t have been any more accommodating. We took our meals in restaurants and picked what we wanted and where we wanted to eat so as to avoid any sort of food poisoning or something not going down well (which can happen with unfamiliar food anywhere) but everything was first-rate. All the ‘visitors’ — including my guy, a couple of guys from Brazil (me and their coach teamed up to help in each others’ corners even though none of them spoke a word of English and I didn’t speak Portuguese … but just barely enough Spanish to understand some of what they were trying to get across, including hand signals) and a few fighters from Uzbekistan or somewhere like that. I had an Enswell and one of the Brazilian guys had his eye closed early and I kept it open well enough for him to go the full 10 rounds and I think he thanked me 100 times, haha. Our locker room was kinda small but I walked over to the ‘home’ locker room and it was the same way … just a facility that didn’t have big lockers or a lot of them. So no big deal. Great trip, really.

Once we were visitors in our own state and the motel was kinda ratty but nothing major. The promoter, who was a friend, put us in a nice place the next time to make it up to us — he explained that most of the visiting fighters were coming in one vehicle and he chose that place because it had a Waffle House next door and that the guys liked that so they could eat anytime, including getting food after the fight when most things had closed down.

Now I’ve read things as you have. I think Tim “Doc” Anderson told a story (this before he murdered scumbag promoter Rick “Elvis” Parker) about going to South Africa and a couple of soldiers came into his locker room and told him he was to lose and he told them to politely have intercourse with themselves and one of them hit him in the nose with the butt of a rifle and broke his nose before the fight. No way to know if that’s real or not but like I said, you hear things.

Best road trips in my experience were fighting in casinos because they have everything — buffets for food, you can walk around the grounds to loosen up and such and there are professionals handling everything. I remember getting to one show at a small casino and there was no water or ice in the locker room area where we were (I had filled my own bottles but others didn’t have them) and I told one of the casino workers and maybe 10 minutes later they hauled in like four cases of water and two coolers full of ice and said ‘if you need more, you ask me and I’ll handle it.’

 

Yeah it was something along the lines of ‘I see you can’t hit with that hand, show me what you got with your other one’ sort of thing.

 

Well it’s good to hear that your experiences have essentially been very good - I particularly like your being well accommodated in Russia.

Also, I really like how you gave a lending hand to the Brazilian boxer.

Gotta admit, hadn’t heard the Tim “Doc” Anderson story. If true, Tim was a game mofo.
The thought of the butt of rifle crashing into my nose makes my eyes water.

You’ve sold me on the Casinos - could be a tad distracting for certain fighters though.

Provision of all you can eat buffet lunches would’ve been rubber stamped into every James Toney contract I’m guessing.

 

I don't disagree with you on reversing certain official knock downs of the past, with Hagler-Roldan being a great example. Also, I'd hate to take Rucky's moment in the Sun away from him, but if he doesn't step on Ali's foot there, that's likely nothing more than him cuffing Ali on his side.

 

True, maybe we let Chuck keep that KD - he needs it to be upheld far more than Ali needs it to be reversed.

 

We can count if 133 is valid ourselves-but it was a ton of clinches & holds,very clearly excessive.
While any holding is illegal & yet it is fair to say that naturally some will occur instinctively, it is undiscerning & unfair to insist that we cannot & should not render humble judgements about what is wrong, very possibly fight changing-or at least we have no idea if the man who won would have under reasonably applied rules-& deeply unfair to the fighter denied a victory or a decent chance at one.

From what I have observed & others note Frazier overwhelmingly hit the hips after he was illegally immobilized.
I think that this is a mild & fair response to deter abuses that prevent a just & equal contest.
It is mild compared to say hitting in the gonads-& unlikely to change an outcome, but may at best go some distance (or not) to having a fair fight.

That is different from the absurd suggestion that anyone like Ali can clinch, pull, maul because his opponent

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