Larry Holmes (1978) V Mike Tyson (1988)??

I’ll concede to your point about shavers. But the old man match thing with Weaver in 1999 doesn’t sway me much. Anything can happen when two old men fight. A knee gives out, someone’s back hurts, one of them neglected to take a shlt before the fight etc… But In 1979 Larry Holmes was in his prime and fighting Weaver who was a 19-8 unknown. And weaver gave him absolute hell. Even had him in the corner and up against the ropes at times. When a person looks at a prime performance like that and then wonders “ what if that were Tyson in there ? “ it raises some doubts

 

LOL.

Imagine, old Larry enters the ring just to be introduced to the spectators as a “former” Great.

He then walks over to young Larry (78 version) and whispers in his ear asking him to exact revenge on old Larry’s behalf. .

Young Larry replies “WTF?”.

Old Larry responds “No questions. Believe me. You’ll see. Just do it!!!!

 

In one of the precious few times I'll defend with an excuse, Holmes was battling an awful cold (easily verifiable, listen to his froggy croak after the fight, plus watch how he sweats his way and has to change out of his boxing trunks midway). He didn't even belong in that ring that night with anyone. The Holmes of the Shavers II fight would have knocked the crap out of Weaver in 8 imo.

 

I believe 78 Holmes has all the necessary tools to beat Mike, and he also has the safety nets of a great chin and will to win.

Having said that, much is made of Holmes being injured vs Norton but the truth is, there appeared nothing wrong with Larry’s jab - it was working a treat.

Norton was past prime but posted a stunning performance nonetheless. It was all Larry for the first third or half of the fight - Holmes dominating early rounds that would be key to bringing Tyson undone - since I can’t see Tyson coming back like Ken did.

As he did in several fights, Larry could begin and continue fighting very cautiously behind the jab for a number of rounds as well as tying Mike up as a secondary option as and when Mike got into the kill zone.

Larry could be susceptible to right hands but I don’t know that we can equate Tyson having the same success as better reached fighters like Earnie Shavers (79” to 80”) enjoyed.

Freeze the vid just before Tyson lands the titanic right on Larry’s temple, possibly Mike’s best punch ever save for pin point accuracy - older Larry is hunched, leaning in, bridging the distance - basically asking for it.

The younger Holmes, more upright, more mobile, properly conditioned with better reflexes is much less likely to be caught with a short right hand like that - and especially not in the early rounds.

And if he was caught - there’s Holmes prime resilience to factor in.

Mike might have a chance at landing a big shot like that at some point (see vs Douglas) - but the chances of same go down with each round after the midway point.

And, when Mike isn’t landing same, he’ll be shipping a lot of punishment from Larry in the meantime - further diminishing his chances of turning the fight around in the later rounds imo.

No bias against Mike but Holmes the boxer and fighter has that many more go to attributes to reason a victory for him.

 

Maybe. Then there’s the life and death battle with a 35 year old Norton. Getting dropped by the somewhat lighter hitting Renaldo Snipes. The hard battle with Cooney who had seen only 54 seconds of ring action in a near two year period. Fighting to a standstill with a 15 fight Witherspoon. I’ll cut it off after the spoon fight given Larry was past his prime but you get the idea

 

I think all Champs have evenings where they shoulda knocked the crap outta someone and...well, it took them a lot longer than expected lol.

 

Yes but in Holmes case it usually took an opponent like Scott Frank to deliver the easily expected result

 

Contrary to revisionist opinion Holmes was past it but not shot when he faced Tyson in real time....he was not rusty or just rolled off the couch, he had a standard two month training camp......afterwards he handily defused Trial Horse Mercer , gave Holyfield a tough time and fought McCall almost to a stand still..............and Holmes did not get better with age lol,

The 1978 Holmes would unfold the same, Holmes would fight negatively in the beginning trying to buy time but like in the real fightr the moment he opens up he is gonna get nailed hard by the right and that is that, a couple of more rounds or so and Holmes gets stopped .........1978 1980 1985 or what ever Tyson will stop ANY version of Holmes.

Proof ? Tyson is the ONLY fighter who stopped Holmes.............and Holmes was completely out of it when Cortez waived it off, he had never ever been hurt like that before or after.

 

I don't like to make excuses but I did hear Holmes was sick vs Weaver, I don't know how much truth there is to that statement. Or how much it effected Holmes's performance. But either way Weaver was a tough nut to crack if he was allowed to get warmed up into a fight.

 

Granted. And that may or may not be the case. But for as great as Larry Holmes was ( and he was in fact great ) there’s no denying that he was a vulnerable champion. If you don’t like the weaver example then take your pic. Plenty of instances to choose from and we can’t make excuses for them all

 

Evangelista, Ocasio, Cobb, Jones, Spinks, Ledoux...

No disrespect, my friend. You're a favorite member of mine here.

 

Like wise

 

Hey Ferg, I know I’m pushing my luck, but….

Old grey beard Mike enters the ring and is introduced exactly as Old Larry was.

He then walks over to 88 Mike and whispers into Mikey’s ear: “Say NO to drugs and women. Heed my words!!!”.

Young Mike replies “Are you crazy OLD man? Get outta here! I’m invincible and impenetrable. Nothing can take me down!!!!”

It makes me laugh when people often say they wish they knew back whenever what they know now. An old head on young shoulders so to speak.

I think it was probably more than likely we were given good, sound advice by those much wiser with with far greater life experiences than our own.

Did we duly listen? Hell no. Too young, too brash and too stupid. We had to suck it and see for ourselves, for better or worse - which, sometimes, is really what it’s all about. LOL.