Did Ali cheat against Foreman?

Nah he actually is correct about everything there.
No Ali tried rope a dope to much lesser effect other times, famously vs. a Frazier who rarely ever tired, against Norton, & sportswriter Bill Plimpton said in "When We Were Kings" how Ali practiced the strategy in sparring, using a colorful example of a man looking out a window at a floor above him...

But not only was the ring tension an accident, sure the ring was small.
It was 16'!
The evidence: ttps://tss.ib.tv/boxing/featured-boxing-articles-boxing-news-videos-rankings-and-results/19594-three-myths-exploited-on-the-40th-anniversary-of-foreman-vs-ali

 

Even a few commentators at the time of the fight commented on how small the ring was.

 

Yeah, you keep on saying that. Based on nothing but wishful thinking.

We're not getting anywhere here.

 

I am saying this because I hear comments like I said the hip shots only were after Ali's clinching, a misquote, & to reply to a comment like the opposite opinion as mine.
Should I call that wishful thinking too?
Why can't you or I see or count things differently?
I can trust you looked & see it the other way, & are not making it up or delusional.

Although bias tends to make people see things to confirm what they want to believe, let's await evidence, not put down the belief-on either side.

 

Same poster. Same histrionic language. Same pleading of acute and inequitable sensitivities.

Same moralistic self elevation and converse moral denouncements. Same irrationalities. Same seriously disturbing and false narratives.

The boy who cried wolf.

Falls short in on point debate then throws up the nonsensical suggestion that people might be becoming upset - when no one was/is.

Now trying to push that invention (embryo for the false narrative as I correctly identified it) further - simply due to his inability to cope with sound points and refutations.

Latest irrationality : AS IF it is not fundamentally sound to state that other posters should and can speak for themselves rather than a poster ASSUME to speak for the individual or collective opinion, as that poster always has wont to do. - his imaginary crutch.

Let their interactions with other posters speak for themselves. It’s the same story.

 

Hey WB

There have some variance in claims but it seems the ring was 16 ft, primarily as per ref Zack Clayton’s reckoning.

Apparently Ali wanted a 20 ft ring, Foreman a 19 ft ring. The ropes were for a larger ring (20 ft or 20 ft plus, I can’t recall).

But anyway, that’s why the ropes were loose - Pre fight Dundee tightened them as much possible without breaking the turn buckles.

The ring did look quite small.

What size do you believe the ring was?

 

I can't say exactly what size, but it doesn't look that small to me, it seems like it's 19 foot.

 

Not that it sheds any light on the ring size in Kinshasa, but if you want to see the biggest ring probably ever used in a championship fight go look up Roberto Duran vs. Lou Bizzarro, in Lou’s hometown of Erie, Pa.

It was, from accounts, specially constructed for the fight. Some say 25 feet … others push it to 26 or more.

Also, it was just canvas over board for a ‘fast surface’ without padding, or at the very least without much padding.

Lou ran a marathon against Roberto, planning to stay away as much as possible and steal a decision — with the specially constructed ring as his accomplice.

Good plan. Didn’t work. Duran finally caught up with him and chopped him down.

Another ‘rigged ring’ championship fight story is Tyson Fury’s challenge of Wlad Klitschko. A member of Fury’s camp (maybe Peter or his father, I forget which) went to inspect the ring the day before or maybe day of and the padding was like a mattress — thick and soft and ‘slow.’ An obvious ploy to nullify Fury’s footwork and make him easier to catch and harder for him to move around.

The Fury camp literally refused to fight — as in they were going to pull out and just leave — if it were not fixed. It was, and of course Fury danced around old Wlad like a ballerina and waltzed away with a decision.

 

Ali couldn't cheat in the ring, it is up to the referee to enforce the rules. The ref was there, if he let either fighter get away with anything that gave that fighter an unfair advantage, the ref is at fault. The ref is the one who cheated. Same for alleged illegal hand wrapping, there is an inspector there watching the wrapping and there can be a witness from the other fighter's group. If the hand wrapping is illegal, it's not the fighter or hand wrapper at fault, it's the inspector and witness who cheated. There are inspectors in the corner too, if the gloves are tampered with, the inspector allowed it, he is the one who cheated. Everything is watched and regulated, if a fighter is allowed to break the rules, someone who was supposed to enforce the rules knew about it and allowed it.

 

Ali used a lot of dirty tactics (against the rules).

What you say is so, but only on paper: bad/corrupted referees and judges, wraps, and gloves, and all kind of cheats happened many times.

 

When we get into things like removing padding and hand wraps done blatantly illegally, yes the inspector has a job but that’s also akin to saying a bank robber isn’t responsible for breaking the law because the bank security or police should have stopped it.

 

Muhammad Ali cheated against George Foreman, only in Foreman's mind, pure speculation. Not another JFK type of conspiracy, George was just sour grapes because he lost to a 32 year old fighter that he was supposed to knock out and couldn't. Tisk, Tisk.

 

I’m guessing you’ve never been in a locker room before a fight? I have.

Yes if you’re in Nevada for a PPV or a big show at Madison Square Garden there’s inspectors tripping over each other. If you’re in a small state at a small show there’s a few at most — these outfits aren’t well-staffed enough to cover all the bases. You can say that’s negligent on the state or the commission should do this or that, but that is reality.

I’ve been in plenty of locker rooms with one inspector and two to four guys wrapping at once. Now let’s say you’re that inspector — how can you watch all of that happening every single second it’s going on without taking your eyes off one guy to watch another? Oh, and what if you at some point have to take a leak or the head inspector/commissioner calls you out of the locker room because there’s a ‘fire’ to put out somewhere else? It happens.

You’re saying if Panama Lewis manages to find a moment to do it when an inspector isn’t present or looking and pulls the stuffing out of the glove and puts a horseshoe in it, that Panama Lewis — who is deliberately breaking not only the rules but the law — has no responsibility for his own actions? Well New York law (and the law anywhere else I’m sure) said differently and he and Luis Resto (the fighter who damned well knew his glove was tampered with and padding removed when he blinded Billy Collins) because they went to prison.

Find me an industry anywhere in the world where there are inspectors who are infallible and catch everything. If a guy makes an honest mistake and uses too much tape and the inspector is watching, he should catch it and correct it. But if someone is intent to cheat, in some situations they will find a way to do it by having an inspector distracted or whatever. That’s what evil people do — they do wrong knowing they’re doing wrong and try to create a circumstance that allows them to do it.

I happened to be in Mississippi working the night Oscar de la Hoya’s corner got tired of waiting for the inspector and went ahead and wrapped his hands. I was in the RV that was set up right outside the tented arena as his personal locker room when he started. I told him, ‘Mississippi has a good commission, they’re going to make you cut it off and rewrap him.’ The cornerman laughed. Guess what? The inspector walked in as he was finishing and said made him cut it off and start over. They were fuming but they had been told to wait til he got there.

 

And that's it in a nutshell! George was all "Ali lost to Frazier and Norton. Had to really pull it out to beat them in rematches. I easily stopped Norton and Frazier so it stands to reason that I could beat Ali provided it was on the level" He never made allowances for Ali being an enigma wrapped up in a mystery for him.

 

I definitely agree that the Frazier hipshots were nothing to do with retaliation - they were simply Joe being Joe.