Gerry Cooney Vs Cleveland Williams

Cooney was regarded a bigger deal than Williams was.

Williams looked the part but he didn’t get the same fanfare drawing with Machen or out pointing Billy Daniels as Cooney got for blasting out Norton and stopping Young.

stopping Young was a bigger deal than outpointing Daniels. Demolishing Norton was the cherry on the cake.

I don’t like including a losing effort as an endorsement but come on, against Larry Gerry looked the better fighter losing compared with Williams when he lost twice to Sonny.

 

Perhaps you can answer the question Long Count is ducking. How many wins over ranked opposition does Cooney have?

Also I hope you know somebody being "regarded a bigger deal" means absolutely nothing in a H2H scenario. Duane Bobick was being pushed as the next great white hope ala Cooney. Does he beat Williams as well? Knowing you, you'd probably make it 50-50.

 

Ken Norton was ranked. Of course it’s not a prime Norton, but it was still a statement win similar to Tyson knocking out Marvis Frazier. As explained to you earlier, Norton clung to a raking out of beating Tex Cobb..he was still a ranked test for the next generation.

regardless of what kind of hope Bobick was, he was a decorated amateur in his own right so any exposure Dwayne was getting was based on that rather than being an actual world beater as a pro. Bobick made the rankings whilst still in the prospect stage. But With the absence any real names on his roster, even decent has beens like Lyle and Young, Bobick lacked the equivalent statement wins that Cooney had so Dwayne was more “prospect” than “hot prospect”. Cooney was regarded, rightly or wrongly, as a “sensation”. Different level.

Williams had an incredibly long career as the danger man house fighter from Texas. Longtime prospect. Short time contender. At one time Big Cat drew with one top contender. So he eventually got to be better than Bobick. But it was a long slow burning apprenticeship that eventually fizzled out after his title fight. Albeit slowly.

 

Apart from yourself, which people thought Cooney was winning the fight against Holmes?
Name one judge ,or boxing writer who agreed with you.

 

Welcome back McVey. Hope you have been keeping well.

 

Thank you actually,I've been laid up for 10 days with flu and sciatica,but I am on the mend now.

 

That’s no good but it’s good to hear that you’re at least on the recovery trail. Looking forward to your future posts.

 

Norton was washed up ,he said himself ,after Holmes his heart wasnt in the game any more.
He partied, he trained spasmodically without any dedication. Shavers had taken him out in a round ,Norton had beaten journeyman Randy Stephens ,struggled to draw with gate keeper Ledoux ,who dropped him twice,and squeeked by face first mauler Cobb,he was done ,a warm body for Cooney to feat on similar to Lyle.
Posters are giving this win a gravitas it does not merit.

 

Norton took the Cooney fight for the same reason he took the Bobick fight. He thought he could win it. I already said it wasn’t a prime Norton. More last roll of the dice for an older contender looking to gatecrash another title fight. Norton already beat the last guy to to beat him and wanted another crack at Larry. That’s not boosting Norton. It was unlikely. But beating a veteran contender in that style was a massive splash for Cooney. Witherspoon did something similar when he knocked out Tillis. Bonecrusher did something similar when he knocked out Weaver. Bruno did something similar when he knocked out Coetzee. These kinds of wins force a title fight.

which win forced a Williams title fight?

 

Not ducking any question he beat Norton who was ranked. Cooney only lost to hall of famers in his career. Norton, Young, and a shot Lyle were all impressively dispatched by Cooney. Cleveland Williams would of been dispatched as well. You have a crush on Cleveland Williams.

 

Dave Moretti 113 - 111
Duane Ford 113 - 111
Fight was close but I scored a draw for Cooney.
Again could Cleve go full 12 rounds with Holmes?
Maybe but I don't thinks so.

 

Leave him alone, he believes that man he is defending him for several years is the best fighters but he is a can crusher.
Just ask him who Cleve beat and he would mention Mittef and draw with Machen.
When you prove him wrong, he calls you some names which proves you are right.

 

Regarded as a bigger deal by who?

If you are talking about the media then I would probably agree with you, but Williams might have been more respected by the contemporary fighters.

 

None of Norton's form leading up to the Cooney fight put him anywhere near being seriously considered for a title shot.At world level Kenny was finished, and everyone knew it.
He had just managed to squeeze in at no 10 at the end of 1980,having been out of the 1979 ratings.

Witherspoon beating Tillis did nothing for him,Tillis wasnt ranked and Witherspoon had already had his title shot, a split dec loss to Holmes,the only fight Tim had lost, he was already a ranked fighter , Tillis like Norton, was in serious decline, having been stopped by Thomas and Page and beaten by Weaver
I was ringside for the Coetzee v Bruno fight, Coetzee turned up 10lbs overweight ,looking like he had trained on beer and pies.He promptly retired for 6 years after this fight,pity he didn't retire before it!


Cooney was well thought of and played up by the press for ONE reason.

He was WHITE!

 

So the only ranked win we have on Cooney is a shot Norton. In other words, Cooney had but a fraction of wins of this supposed can crusher.

Congratulations to Cooney for replicating Lynn Ball's win over Lyle! Such a huge accomplishment! This is amusing at this point. You call Williams a can crusher while praising a guy with a fraction of the ranked wins, who's claim to fame is beating three shot has-beens from the prior decade.

As for him only losing to hall of famers, maybe that has something to do with the fact that he fought all of ONE ranked opponent, a shot Ken Norton who two years prior was dropped twice by a journeyman and quite literally being beaten over the top rope until being saved by an early bell.