Gerry Cooney Vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Nov 12, 2022.



  1. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    I guess you mean this one from the Miami News. Viscusi did tell the press that "if we get lucky" the fight might lead to meetings with higher rated contenders. He also admitted that it was a gamble which he took as a favour to the promoter, and that he wished there had been time for Williams to get some proper sparring in so he'd be sharper.

    https://ibb.co/8c0Z6mR

    The reality is it was all spin. As he acknowledged later, Viscusi knew full well that Williams' career was going to have to be put on hold whatever the result because he was in the process of being drafted into the army.

    https://ibb.co/t3wX3rL
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Deliberate spin is exactly what it is. Williams wasnt being lined up to fight no 8 ranked Satterfield,he was put in at the last moment to save the show.

    Phrases like," heavily backed" thats just BS spin on your part , Satterfield was favourite to win and Williams was no more heavily backed than any other young fighter.

    You've been doing this BS about Williams for years calling Billy Daniels the Barber, as though he wasn't the no6 ranked heavyweight with only one loss ,[to Ali on a cut,] on his sheet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    He was being groomed for a title fight, he had already fought on one Marciano card, and the chance came to gatecrash the title situation when Satterfeilds opponent fell through. His manager, Lou viscusi, leapt at the chance. He had a much bigger guy who was ready to step up. He certainly thought it was worth a roll of the dice.
     
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Spin ,just like your disparaging of Williams early opponents such as Curley Lee because of his name.Lee was 18- 0-1 with14kos including wins over the likes of Paul Andrews who beat'
    McMurray
    Slade
    Durelle
    Nardico
    Dunlap
    Oakland Billy Smith

    And Art Henri who had a bunch of losses, but usually to good fighters19fight Williams stopped Henri in8rds.

    A year earlier Henri had gone 9 rds with 33 fight Marciano.

    So because Williams fought a 4 rounder on the bottom of the undercard of the
    Marciano v Lastarza 2nd fight , a fight he lost , that means he was being groomed for a title shot?
    More spin nonsense!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Probably why Lou Visusi thought Williams would beat Satterfeild?
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Viscusi was a flesh peddler, he ended up as a booking agent for Mickey Duff who sacked him because he discovered he was not trust worthy.
    Anyway I'm back here, and I don't intend to waste my return pointing out your deliberate "adjustments to reality".
     
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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    flesh pedlar? That’s out of line!

    International Boxing hall of fame inducted viscusi in 2004. In canastota they say this about Lou:


    “Known in boxing circles simply as "Mr. Lou", Viscusi was born on June 15, 1909 in Schenectady, NY. He spent his childhood in Tampa, but moved north and settled in Hartford, CT in 1929 at the age of 19.
    Already a boxing manager, Viscusi also made his mark as a promoter in the New England area, promoting everything from boxing to wrestling to circuses. However, it was as a manager that he would find his greatest success. He guided the careers of welterweight Del Flanagan, heavyweight Roy (Cut and Shoot) Harris, middleweight Tony Licata, welterweight Manny Gonzalez and heavyweight Cleveland Williams, but was best remembered for maneuvering three Hall of Famers to world championships - featherweight Willie Pep, lightweight Joe (Old Bones) Brown and light heavyweight Bob Foster.
    Viscusi and trainer Bill Gore were one of boxing's classic combinations with Viscusi dealing with the business affairs and Gore handling the training. Together they handled hundreds of boxers, including champions Pep and Brown.
    Viscusi died on August 10, 1997.”
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The article said they were hoping the fight would lead to big things down the line, (on the caveat that they won which Williams' own manager conceded wasn't the most probably outcome) not for Williams, unranked at the time to face Marciano in a matter of months, whom to his credit was only fighting his number. 1 contender with the odd exception.

    So you're correct it's not "deliberate spin". It's fiction. You literally just made it up.
     
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  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    That’s not how I remember it. Viscusi did not say “William’s losing is the most probable outcome”.

    He showed confidence in his fighter. Took the gamble because Williams was ready to step up. He had to be by then!

    Satterfeild lost just 3 weeks ago and was starting to lose more fights than he could win. Was smaller. Whereas viscusi own fighter was younger, bigger and won just 2 weeks earlier.

    Viscusi said that Charles got a crack at the title through beating Satterfield and he hoped Williams does the same. Something like that. He hinted that it wasn’t ideal but was worth the punt.

    But Go ahead and produce it. This “Not probable but I’ll still take it” nonsense, I’m sure if it exists you will have it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Thank you for clearing this up. It shows Viscusi was rolling the dice on this opportunity. A calculated gamble Williams had to take at that point in his career. That Viscusi had confidence in him pulling it off.


    https://ibb.co/8c0Z6mR
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
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  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    I'd be extremely keen to see how you got that out of the articles.
     
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  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I’m more keen to see where swags “manager conceded it wasn’t the most possible outcome” came from.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    I'll take that as a...... yeah you're right i misconstrued the truth.
     
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  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    They took the fight because Williams could win it. And that’s all there is to it.

    You guys need to stop pretending Williams was deliberately lead to a knockout defeat. He wasnt. The kid was brought along slowly. And they were waiting for just such a fight to come up. A physically smaller name fighter who looked like he was on the slide. The whole purpose of investing all that caution in Williams career. And come up it did. So they took it. Just as they should have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The "if we get lucky" line was a bit telling was it not?

    He acknowledges it as a gamble which is also telling he's not hugely confident, that Williams would win the fight, concedes Satterfield has a huge edge in experience.

    The most positive thing he says in Williams' favor is saying he'll be all right IF he gets there first, and says they'll "have to wait and see" which clearly suggests he wasn't sure of the outcome.
     
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