Harry Greb vs Floyd Mayweather jr jr jr

both Castillo fights were so close they could have gone either way in my opinion

 

LOL. Sure money " beat " Castillo though boxing fans live booed the decision and many fans watching the fight gave it to Castillo. Either way he exposed Mayweather weakness on that night as a lightweight, Greb is a battle test middle weight light heavy who has the same style and then some so pick who you want head to head. I think money would gas his @ss kicked.

By the way don't be so sure there isn't any film on Greb in the ring.

 

I think it's a little fantastical to assign a loss to a win and a style comparison to a guy who you've never seen fight. Btw Mayweather wasn't on the level of Stevie Johnston if that's what you're trying to reduce it to.

 

I’m really enjoying the back and forth debate between you two, but you both have extreme views, where you’ve both exaggerated and got carried away.

Just a few points from me:

Joe Calzaghe had very fast hands for a man of his size. But he wasn’t quicker than Ray Leonard.

IMHO, Mike Tyson is both the most overrated and underrated fighter of all time. Whenever his career gets discussed, it goes from one extreme to the other. Regarding the Douglas fight, no, he wasn’t at his best. Now maybe Douglas would always have beaten him? We’ll never know. But he wasn’t at his best in Tokyo. He looked good aesthetically, like he always did, but he had poor stamina, where he was exhausted in the latter part of the fight. He was lethargic. He had little head movement. He flew to Tokyo, where he just went through the motions. Just like when James Toney fought Dave Tiberi. His heart wasn’t in it. He didn’t look good in training. He didn’t want to be there. He wasn’t fired up. He just went because he was obligated. That was never Mike at his best. So I agree with White Bomber. And it’s not very often that that happens.

Regarding Greb, again, it’s difficult to form an exact opinion without footage, but if you do your research, you can certainly get a feel for his style. I have no reason to disbelieve so many accounts from various people. However, I think you have both exaggerated when discussing him. I don’t agree with White Bomber that all of those guys mentioned would have beaten him to a pulp. But at the same time, I don’t agree with you where you have said that he’d have smoked all of them.

 

I agree with you regarding Leonard. He was definitely faster than Joe.

I don’t know if Tunney would get beaten up in the 60’s.

Like I said to Crouch, you’re both very extreme in your views.

Now you have no idea if Greb would stand no chance with a modern boxer, if he fought in his correct weight division.

That is just an assumption on your part, due to the era that he fought in.

That’s the only reason why you’ve dismissed him outright.

We have debated many times.

You are very ignorant of the past.

Like I tell you and No Neck all of the time, it doesn’t matter what era a guy fought in. The only thing that is relevant, is how they’d have matched up on the night stylistically.

There’s no logical reason for you to believe that Greb couldn’t compete with any modern day fighter.

There’s numerous examples of modern day fighters, even great ones, who have been troubled by certain styles and attributes.

We have seen Floyd easily beat both Canelo and Manny, yet struggle against a crude Maidana, sandwiched in the middle of those 2 fights.

There were some very talented fighters of Greb’s era.

Not all of them were bums.

You claim that people are biased due to nostalgia, yet you are just as bad as those guys who you condemn.

 

Boxing has evolved, but it doesn’t change the fact that everyone has a stylistic nemesis.

Greb didn’t have to be as skilled as Floyd, in order to have caused him issues.

 

Cute story, nothing typed is fact. What you typed is what you want to believe. I type facts. Boxing has evolved and nobody who boxed in Greb's era was nearly as killed as anybody who boxed in the modern era. You can live in your little fantasy world where 170 pound boxers like Gene Tunney could beat George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko. You can live in your little fantasy world where boxers from the early 1900's are more skilled than modern boxers. I will live in reality, the real world. Would you be so kind as to never make a comment to me again? I won't read it and I will probably just block you anyway. I only talk to people who actually understand boxing.

 

Of course they could.

Not every modern day fighter is greatly skilled technically.

Not every modern day fighter is more skilled than every older fighter.

There’s only so many punches and techniques to master.

A left hook, with the right technique and leverage, is the same now, as what it was decades ago.

The only difference, is that they wore different gloves and different boots back then.

Go and research the careers of Benny Leonard and Jimmy Wilde.

They were immensely skilled.

Benny Leonard had wonderful balance, speed and timing.

Go and look at Jack Dempsey.

You think that Dempsey with his attributes, wouldn’t even have been able to have competed with any of today’s LHW’s and CW’s?

Again, not every modern guy is more skilled. But again, even if they were, they’d still all struggle with a certain style.

Floyd struggled with Maidana.

Do you think that Maidana had more skill than anyone of Greb’s era?

He didn’t.

Don’t write of the fighters of old, just based off an assumption, due to the time that’s passed.

There’s enough footage and accounts of their careers, to realise that they weren’t just stood there throwing their hands around, with no technique and footwork etc.

There’s been skilled technicians all throughout the history of the sport.

 

He does.

It looks ridiculous. But I’ve seen other fighters train in a similar way. And there’s enough footage of his opponents, as well as eye witness testimony etc, for me to believe that there’s just no way he could have fought in the manner in which he trained.

Back then they used to loosen up, and spar like children playing tag.

There was no balance or technique. They were just stretching out.

Again, if you were to look at Tunney’s fights and you’d watched the training footage, you’d have to question why he didn’t kill Greb each time they fought, in a matter of mere seconds.

So he cannot possibly have entered the ring and had 300 fights fighting in that manner. But I agree, it does look absolutely bizarre.

 

You can’t find any proof, but at the same time, you haven’t got the patience to research his career or his opponents.

 

There’s no need for you to get upset because someone’s disagreed with you.

If you were to give me a chance, then I’m sure that we can have a good debate.

That’s why we’re here isn’t it?


My points are very logical.

I’m not biased due to nostalgia, which I can prove.

Actually, if you read some of my comments to the other members on this thread, you can clearly see that.

I’ll give you a good, objective debate, where I’ll answer all of your points.


Please tell me what facts you have typed.


Wait a moment. Where in my post have I said that Gene Tunney would have beaten George Foreman etc??

I have not said that at all.


I just said that not EVERY modern day fighter is more skilled than EVERY fighter of Greb’s era.

Again, go and look at the career of Benny Leonard etc.


I also said that styles make fights.

Every fighter has a stylistic nemesis.


There’s no reason not to believe that SOME of the great fighters of the past, could trouble SOME of today’s modern fighters, based upon their styles.


From a technical standpoint, Joe Louis was more skilled than Joe Frazier.

Was Joe Frazier more skilled than Dempsey and Tunney, and everyone else from that era?

Frazier wasn’t tremendously skilled from a technical standpoint.

However, he had a certain style, along with some great attributes, which took him a long way.


Now my belief, is that a great fighter from one era, could have been competitive with a great fighter from another era, again, based upon how they’d have matched up stylistically.

The more modern fighter wouldn’t ALWAYS have won.

Just like the older fighters wouldn’t ALWAYS have won.

Anyone who believes that every old fighter would have won, is clearly biased.

A tournament of great fighters from different eras, would always throw out mixed results. Because fights are always determined by how the two fighters match up on the night stylistically. Always.


If you were to study the career of Harry Greb, there’s no reason to believe that it would have been impossible for him to have caused Floyd Mayweather issues.


Look at the trouble that Marcos Maidana caused Floyd, which was only 8 months after he’d easily embarrassed Canelo. Now if you think that a guy like Marcos Maidana was more skilled than everyone of yesteryear, then you are very much mistaken.

Marcos Maidana was no technician.

He was crude.

But his STYLE and his ATTRIBUTES are what bothered Floyd.

So then why couldn’t a fighter of a similar style have also caused Floyd some issues?


If we transported a guy like Dempsey to the modern era, then I’m sure that he’d be more than competitive with SOME of today’s LHW’s and CW’s, based upon his style and his attributes.


Now nothing I’ve said here is biased or delusional.

So if you want a debate, then I’ll gladly give you one.


Thanks.

 

Cute story?

I literally only typed out TWO lines, and in of them, I AGREED with you on one of your points.

 

In a favourite film of mine " 12 Angry Men " there is a scene where by a very polite older man was trying very eloquently to disprove a point that another juror ( arrogant and rude ) was laying out, as the old man rose to his feet the other guy got up walked away, " please come back and listen " said the old man, the Henry Fonda character lent across and said to the old man " he is not listening , he never will " there you have it Loudon.
stay safe buddy.

 

There is a huge difference between having excellent boxing skills and being an excellent fighter. People laugh when they see that Greb sparring clip and say there's no way this guy could beat Floyd, he looks worse than an amateur! And I would agree, Greb looks ridiculous.

But then I watch Tunney. I watch Loughran. I watch Walker. I watch Gibbons. Etc.

I read about Rosenbloom and Norfolk and Dillon and Flowers and all the other greats that Greb beat. I read about the sparring sessions with Dempsey, who Harry handled easily. How could the great Dempsey not swat him like a fly? Surely, after watching the video of Greb sparring, any sane boxing fan would assume Jack would destroy him.

How on earth did Harry Greb beat these extremely skilled fighters & whip Dempsey in sparring, to boot?

Because he was a great fighter.

 

Great post.

Although we couldn’t see the footage, we KNOW that Greb cannot have fought those guys in the manner in which he sparred.