Is Vitali Kiltschko an all time top 10 heavy weight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 25, 2022.


  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    There were much better options available than Botha. He wasn't even the best South African available.
     
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  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You could say that again, this was definitely a cherry pick. Lewis is entitled. He fought a 18 ring magazine ranked opponets. You can count on one a hand how many fighters fought more or who has a better winning percentage.

    Record vs. Ring-rated Opponents: 15-2-1 (11 KO, 2 KOBY) They are below by results, ranked, and date. The poster who reported 13 ranked contenders for Lewis is giving us fake news again or using annual ratings. They 17 men were:

    Donovan Ruddock TKO 2 – (3) – Hvy – 02/93

    Tony Tucker UD 12 – (5) – Hvy – 08/93

    Frank Bruno TKO 7 – (8) – Hvy – 01/94

    Phil Jackson TKO 8 – (9) – Hvy – 08/94

    Oliver McCall TKO by 2 – (4) – Hvy – Winter/94

    Lionel Butler TKO 5 – (10) – Hvy – 08/95

    Tommy Morrison TKO 6 – (10) – Hvy – 01/96

    Henry Akinwande DQ 5 – (7) – Hvy – 11/97

    Andrew Golota KO 1 – (4) – Hvy – Holiday/97

    Shannon Briggs TKO 5 – (7) – Hvy – 07/98

    Evander Holyfield D 12 – (1) – Hvy – 06/99

    Evander Holyfield UD 12 – (2) – Hvy – 02/00

    Michael Grant KO 2 – (3) – Hvy – 07/00

    David Tua UD 12 – (2) – Hvy – 03/01

    Hasim Rahman KO by 5 – (8) – Hvy – 08/01

    Hasim Rahman KO 4* – (1) – Hvy – 03/02

    Mike Tyson KO 8 – (2) – Hvy – 10/02

    Vitali Klitschko TKO 6 on cuts – ( 10 ) Hvy – 10/03
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Lewis' previous 3 fights had been
    Undefeated 31-0-0 Grant less than 3 months earlier ;
    His 2 fights before that were with Holyfield.

    His next fight less than 4 months after Botha was
    37-1-0 Tua and you want to criticize him for fighting twice beaten [ by men who held the title],Botha?

    I'd ,like to know when the following Vitali opponents were ranked? Which month?
    Kevin Johnson,Fought Vitali on12th December 2009,yet he isnt in the end of that years ratings nor any others?

    Odlanier Solis Cliff Rold a Ring contributor looked this up and stated Solis was never Ring top ten ranked,

    Danny Williams, Fought Vitali on the 11 th of December 2004 yet he isnt ranked in either the end of that years ratings nor any other end of years ratings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    This post has little to do with Botha not being a solid opponent.

    I believe Solis and Johnson were ranked. Idk about Williams. Solis was a pretty risky fight at the time.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    No, Botha was not ring raked ranked at the time Lewis obliterated him! He was cherry picked for a title shot. Maybe ranked 30th at the time.

    Solis and Johnson were ranked by ring magazine at the time Vitail fought them and good boxers. Willams was ranked 9th at the time Vitali fought him. In your time line you prove your greatness vs. ring magazine ranked opponents...serval of them. Vitali is 8-2 here and this doesn't include his alphabet contenders who held titles that were not ranked when he fought them. This mark is excellent.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I believe Botha was a solid opponent,with only 2 defeats ,both to world champions on his resume.
    The fact that Lewis took him out in2 rds says more about the quality of Lewis than the lack of it in Botha imo.Two years later Botha went 8 rds with Wlad.
    Well a Ring contributor who has access to their monthly ratings stated Solis was never ranked .

    You believe Johnson was ranked, Well when?

    What do you think of Vitali defending his "title" against,the following?
    Ed Mahone
    Obed Sullivan
    Manuel Charr
    Danny Williams
    Albert Sosnowski
    Larry Donald
    ???????????
    Solis was pretty risky? He had never beaten a ranked fighter up to then ,and never did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Vitali's ring magazine raked opponents as the time he fought them were

    1999 RTD by 9 Chris Byrd (#10 at Heavyweight) * shoulder injury, Later Byrd would be the number 1 ranked contender. Vitali was way up on all there on the cards.

    2003 - TKO by 6 Lennox Lewis (Champion at Heavyweight) * cuts. Again, Vitali was leading on all three cards.

    2004 - TKO8 Corrie Sanders (#3 at Heavyweight)

    2004 TKO8 Danny Williams (#9 at Heavyweight)

    2008 - RTD8 Sam Peter (#2 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - TKO9 Juan Carlos Gomez (#9 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - RTD10 Chris Arreola (#6 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - UD12 Kevin Johnson (#10 at Heavyweight)

    2011 - KO1 Odlanier Solis ( # 9 at Heavyweight)

    2011 - TKO10 Tomasz Adamek (#2 at Heavyweight)

    Sure men like Briggs and Hide weren't actively ring ranked at the time Vitali beat them, but they were perviously and he beat them in title fights. Ever champion picks on 1 cherry pick most typically when the reach older age as Vitali did. Ignoring the previous posters errors Larry Donald was not a title fight.
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As usual you give context for Vitaly's losses, but not for his wins.

    Sanders clearly was in **** shape but still managed to rock Vitaly quite seriously. The Sanders that blitzed Wlad wouldn't have let him off the hook as easily.

    Solis injured his knee, so that "KO1" doesn't tell us anything.

    You also manage to not mention Lewis age and poor shape. That is the kind of fight the up and coming guy just have to win, but Vitaly came up short.

    Still, a good argument for being at least right outside the top 10. Inside... Hmm, hard to bump anyone that I have there. Rocky? No. Frazier, Tyson, Holy, Wlad? Probably not.
     
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  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Solis was the best heavyweight am to ever have turned pro and was undefeated. He looked pretty scary against Barrett. He turned to absolute crap after the Vitali fight, but Vitali didn’t sign up for that version of him.

    Williams was in there because he beat Tyson and was a popular fighter. Can’t really blame Vitali there.

    Vitali was an old man for Charr.

    Sosnowski was an inexplicably bad choice of opponent, as was Botha. Vitali was about forty years old though.

    Donald was an eliminator, no title at stake.

    I don’t really count the WBO belt at heavyweight until Wlad/Byrd happened.

    I think the monthly Ring rankings might’ve been pulled off the internet. I think Fightnews had them in also.
     
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  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Barrett was 38 when he fought Solis.
     
  11. Terror

    Terror free smoke Full Member

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    In short, legacywise no, h2h yes. He lacks quality wins and some of his stellar late career work hasn't aged great because the fighters Vitali faced turned out to be pretty mediocre in general. I think most find him the superior Klitschko bc he was never knocked out but for me Wlad clearly was the better fighter and honestly even the better combination puncher at full force. Vitali had a robot Ali quality about him and he was an awesome talent. I think he could have definitely made my top 10 if he stayed active and didn't suffer injuries.
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    What? Sanders landed a hard left to the side of the head. Vitali took it any won every other round, mixing in fine body work stopping him.

    Soils was hit by a blow, and the only after that his knee buckled.

    Lewis was less than 2 years removed form on his best performances ( Rahman II ) and Vitali took the fight not ready ( he was was preparing for a 10 round match ). Advantage Lewis.

    I'm auguring the win by breaking them down individually by the way, rather giving a macro view of things.

    I didn't giving a ranking under in the head to head context / comparison here, but in a ratings sense vs. Vitali his accomplishment is not that bump Rocky, Frazier, or Dempsey to make room for somebody else. And I listed the reason why. Drilling down in such threads, start a new one if you want it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Vitali was older than that when he beat Solis. Barrett went on to beat Tua—>Solis put his lights out with a left hook but Tua failed to in 24 rounds. Austin was a more relevant win for Solis than Barrett, but he didn’t light him up like that.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How old was Tua? lol
     
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jesus, just give up will you. Solis torn his knee so bad that he couldn't stand. Just admit that this doesn't count.

    And Lewis was 38 and out of shape. Yes, it was two years removed from Rahman 2, but you could as well argue that Wlad wasn't old against Fury since it wasn't that long after he levelled Pulev. And Wlad's shape was better for Fury than Lewis's for Vitaly.

    Lewis was there for the taking and Vitaly couldn't close the deal like greats most often do.
     
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