James Jeffries training clips and more

JimJeffries never defended his title against a black challenger and numerous times in print stated he had absolutely no intention of doing so,that he would retire rather than taking a chance of losing his title to a man of colour.
This is a confirmed fact and no amount of blustering obfuscation will change it .

There is no point in proceeding further with this as the truth was established on this issue over a century ago,Jeffries like;
Sullivan, Corbett,Fitzsimmons,Hart,Willard , Dempsey,Tunney,Sharkey,Schmeling,and other brief heavyweight champs never defended against a Black challenger.
Sharkey and Schmeling at least fought and beat the best black opponents out there.
Sullivan,Hart,Willard and Dempsey like Jeffries made public statements that as champion they drew the colour line,though Dempsey later reversed his decision in print.
I'm out of this merry go round of intentional revisionism of boxing history, quite frankly it insults the Forum's intelligence to the point of pretending ,no pun intended, black is white and night is day.There are far more productive threads to address.

 

Revealed: Vitali Klitschko Knocked Down Twice - Boxing News (*******.com)
That didn't take long to find ,possibly 10 seconds. Three witnesses also stated champion Jim Corbett floored Jim Jeffries in a spar. Though of interest these incidents are not of any great import imo.
Wlad ko'd Wilder in sparring and it was witnessed by Dillian Whyte.
Ray Patterson floored Liston in a spar in Sweden and there is a photo of it. Surprising but hardly earth shattering it's just sparring. It's only when a poster tries to make more of these occurrences to dump on a fighter that it becomes in need of proper perspective and correction.Just wanted to provide a source, now I'm gone.

 

There's no denying the ducking of black fighters and the impacts resulting .. in some cases champions extended reigns and in others they may have ultimately shortchanged themselves ... I am a huge Jack Johnson fan but even I question how the 1905 version that even if robbed did fight a tough, competitive fight w Hart would have done w that vintage of Jeffries .. Jeffries sure screwed that one up for himself as there is no doubt the guy that wrecked Monroe would have been a far different match up for Johnson that the wreck of Reno .. there is little doubt that the prime Jeffries was a beast for his day , a fighter of his time and bout distances and that's the only context I can put him in with any confidence ..

 

1905 Jeffries was prime, Johnson short of his,it would have been a helluva fight. Jeffries was a precocious talent who had the benefit of daily schooling and a planned development plus 100's of rounds of learning in sparring with Corbett.
Johnson was on the road picking up fights when and where he could, and facing colour prejudice daily . He also wasnt always able to eat enough on a regular basis,George Siler mentioned that at the time of the Klondike fight Johnson was subsisting on what he could scrounge from free lunch counters. Looking at Jeffries early fights we can see he was already a 200lbs + specimen, a rough diamond who needed polishing.Johnson was fighting as a middleweight early in his career.Circumstances dictated that he developed slower.
In1896 at the age of 21 Jeffries weighed 198lbs
In1900 aged 22 Johnson weighed 168lbs.
Do we judge them on their early careers which were vastly different?
Or do we judge them prime for prime?
I've no problem with anyone picking Jeffries H2H v Johnson ,my problem is falsifying of facts and circumstance to bolster one's rep at the expense of the other.[/QUOTE]

 

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I don't know if we can say a 27 year old , 190 pound plus Johnson was short of his prime but it is irrelevant and that is on Jeffries who refused Johnson .. Johnson without question would have taken the fight if he had the opportunity ..

 

Most points are reasonable and indeed a 1905 match v Johnson would be a pick 'em IMO, but citing the Monroe "fight"as a decent performance is a bit much, Jack was nothing much. The 1905 Hart was a lot of notches above Monroe.

 

Pollack quotes sources stating that neither Johnson nor Hart would make much of a match for Jim if my memory serves. But sometimes, often enough, sources don't know what they are talking about.

 

As in Douglas and Braddock wouldnt make much of a fight for Tyson and Baer, respectively.

 

Douglas opened on the betting at 42/1.

 

Yes. And the same was said of Jackson and Corbett against Sullivan.

 

Jeff said a lot of things, He had no fight in Britain or Ireland, just exhibitions. He also said his first fight with Hank Griffin was the first time he saw a boxing glove. A hugh dollop of salt, anyone?

 

I don't know if we can say a 27 year old , 190 pound plus Johnson was short of his prime but it is irrelevant and that is on Jeffries who refused Johnson .. Johnson without question would have taken the fight if he had the opportunity ..[/QUOTE]
Matt for which fights in 1905 have you a primary source that Johnson was 190lbs plus?
In1906 , against Langford he was estimated to be 185lbs.
For 3 fights in 1907
Against the following Johnson scaled
Burke185lbs
Flynn186ilbs
Felix 184lbs
In1908 against Burns he was 194lbs.
Johnson stated he was in the best shape of his life against Jeffries in1910, for which fight he was 205lbs.

Here is Johnson v Hart
ttps://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Jack_Johnson_vs._Marvin_Hart
For my money Johnson looks noticeably slenderer than in his later fights.

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He claimed he boxed Ed Dunkhorst in London, he didn''t , he boxed his brother who was billed as Dunkhorst,Dunkhorst,never made the trip.