Larry Holmes - There Should Be a Size limit On The Heavyweight s!

I think we need better steroid testing. These giant men would go back to being freakshows as opposed to serious contenders overnight. One of the hardest hitting people I ever had to spar w was 180. Hit harder than the 220-270 pound people I’ve sparred with and he’s faster which can make up for being bullies a bit. But these are fair sparring matches. When large men can take illegal substances giving them a functional mass they wouldn’t have had, and more explosiveness I’m sure it’s a problem. I’ve never had to spar a 250 pound roided up fighter.

 

Let me clarify: I was suggesting renaming cruiserweight heavyweight since it's such a horrible name and maybe giving them a little more leeway to go up to 220 lbs. I wasn't saying we need an additional division. Guys who are 6'2-6'4 might have trouble draining down to 205 and they shouldn't have to. They also shouldn't have to deal with 6'9 behemoths like Fury who can just lean on them all day. Make that the super heavyweight division.

I am also strongly against having so many belts. I would be overjoyed with having just 1.

 

Besides the unicorn how may of the top 50 using box rec ratings or any other that go 50 back are his size. Just one! Sorry to belittle your point, pun intended.

 

Marciano---"had few amateur fights"

Good point.

Marciano---"didn't meet anyone good for awhile"

True, but do modern guys meet "anyone good" that often or that quickly? How many good men has Wilder met? I mean by good top echelon or rated men in their own era. (that is the only sensible way of comparing such different eras)

"Old timers did not have access to many modern day medical drugs and surgeries"

True, but why is the NFL average age only 26 while top boxers are so much older? Any ideas? The NFL players also have access to modern drugs and surgeries.

"many of the top prospects in the division and currently "ranked" between spots 26-100 are under 30 years of age"

I don't know about 51-100, but 26-50 on this list has one under 25, seven between 26-29, ten between 30-34, five between ages 35-39, and three 40 or more. Not that much younger on the whole. And this begs the issue of why the men who actually dominate the division today, not those who might ten years from now, are so old. After all, most of the better old timers--Jeff, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson--won the title in their twenties, several when under 25.

 

no need to split the taken pool, I agree, but the two divisions above LH need relabelled.

we can’t have heavyweights being called “cruisers” and we can’t have Super heavyweights being called “heavyweights”.

This could be another Superheavyweight issue separate to heavyweight. Yet another example of relabelling being required to differentiate between categories. For all we know relabelling could open up the number of fighters who would be more comfortable competing between 190 and 220 if it was actually called heavyweight again? With less fighters giving away weight (or forced into making a higher artificial weight less natural to them) who knows, it Could make it easier to make more matches when fighters are still young?

 

2 of the top 4 (admittedly, arguably 5 now, with the emergence of JJ) HWs have natural fighting weights of <220lbs. Wilder was 214.75lbs for his best win.

 

We don’t need another weight class but I think the ones we already have definitely need to be relabelled. It needs to match the Amateur sport.

 

That true, but Wilder is older now and I think a bit of a fraud. 2 of the top 50 at box rec are under 225 pounds, just two. You can find one of two exceptions for now. I pay close attention to the guys one the way up and in a few years the number could get even smaller in the next five years. The over all talent on the 33 and under contenders is good.

 

There are more young guys further down the list the have not proven enough yet to read above the top 50. Look here the top 51-100. And even more in the top 100-150, and so on down the list.

[url]https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r[role]=box-pro&r[sex]=M&r[status]=a&r[division]=Heavyweight&r[country]=&r_go=&offset=50[/url]

Why are there so many young guys in football? Well in that sport everyone is virtually a millionaire. Even the back ups! And most of the young guys. Football is a sport I am familiar has 230+ or so young men drafted to play every year, men between the ages of 21-24. The NFL must have over 1,500 millionaires active millionaires.

Boxing is not nearly as popular and much harder to make money in. A lot harder. It has maybe 15 total active heavyweights who made a million dollars in their career. Compare the numbers.

Football is a collision sport more-so the a contact sport, and guys wear out sooner because of it. This is why the guy go pro sooner and in far greater numbers. Their career is shorter and you don't see many players over 35.

Did I explain it clearly enough?

But you are right, heavyweight boxing has one age issue with its top fighters. You should check out my top 15 heavyweight prospect list. I posted it here and it includes the future, with everyone young and good listed is detail. I see two potential guys as good or better than Fury. I can pm it for you.

 

Thank you for this post. Some very good points concerning the difference between football and boxing. Thinking on it, another difference is it isn't up to the competitor if he can hang around as he ages. The coach and GM will drop him if he can't cut the mustard. And younger players fresh out of college can be had cheaper, important concerning cap space. So an old guy has to be productive or else.

But while I agree with what you posted, I don't agree completely that it explains all the old guys dominating. The NBA averages 26 years also. It is not a collusion sport, although certainly a millionaire one. Baseball averages 27.

Bottom line question is why do greedy old men in boxing best greedy young men? An occasional old guy doing well has always been true. Fitz. Moore. Robinson. Etc. But a whole division of old guys?

If you would post the names of the two young prospects you consider potentially better than Fury, I would appreciate it. If they are already pros, I can look them up at boxrec.

 

Sure. They are Hrgovic would should have won Gold in the Olympics but was robbed in 2016 in his match vs. the " winner " in Yoka. He than dominated the very pro like world series of boxing after that and went pro. The other guy is Jarolov who won Gold in the 2020 games and look for lack of a better word great. Hrgovic is already ring magazine ranked in the top ten and Jalovov isn't far behind him. One of those two or both will be champion.

There are too many older guys, current and x champions playing games and " belt milking " their titles vs non ranked men and older men ( in their 38-40's + ) , ducking the talented younger guys. It's a problem in boxing, but the promoters only care if they draw from the punch drunks fans on PPV. The young guys don't have the alphabet world tile belts and for now lack the connections. Does that explain it?

 

Thanks very much. But these two don't really make your case that well.

Filip Hrgovic--is 30 years old and has had 15 fights.

Bokhodir Jalolov--is 28 years old and has had 12 fights.

Pretty old for prospects by historical standards. Hrgovic is 9 years older than Tyson when he won the title. 8 years older than Ali. 7 years older than Louis. 6 years older than Jeffries and Dempsey and Foreman. He is even older than Marciano who started late. Jololov is not that young either.

In most sports hardly anyone makes it to the top in their thirties. Those who are at the top in their thirties or forties, let's say Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, were also at the top in their twenties. They just continued to be good.

Anyway, any insights would be appreciated on this issue. It is interesting to me. I can understand big guys dominating little guys, but old men dominating young men? Across the board? Head scratcher for me.

 

Most giants are not good though. Slow, uncoordinated and lumbering.

 

OF COURSE it could work,

I have projected many times, 12 Divisions with 10lbs between them (less even, than the tradition 8 division), 12 Divisions from Fly - SUPER - HEAVYWEIGHT... S-HW = 6'5" Tall and OVER 225lbs.

all fighters could then operate much closer to 'their natural' weights... FIXED

 

You are not getting it. Besides it has been over 30 years since Mike Tyson became champion. There has not been a fighter his age or height since. The problem with the heavyweight division is middle age men, fighting old 37+ year old men to un-ranked non top ten opponents by a good 3rd party like Fight news, Ring magazine, or Box rec.

Jalolov rand Hrgovic are in position to dominate for 5+ years, especially if they " belt milk " like Wilder and Fury have. Hrgovic is the mandatory IBF belt challenger.