Jack Dempsey.. Or James J Jeffries?

Just because they weren't his best opponents, it doesn't mean that he couldn't have improved in those fights.

There were contemporary observers like Ed Graney, who said that his boxing technique did improve.

With no footage to confirm or refute their claims, we probably shouldn't dismiss them.

 

Yes, Jefferies defeated a"speedy boxer". However that speedy puncher (Corbett) had zero power and was ancient in the second fight yet still carved up JJ's face.

It's true that Jeffries could take brutal insane punishment....which was the only reason for several of his victories. I think Dempsey punches JJs face into hamburger meat and Jefferies' corner throws in the towel like they did vs Johnson.

 

Two thoughts come to mind with this match-up. The first is above. The second is that Jeffries low right hand is an open invitation to an early ending via Dempsey's devastating left. This one could well be over before the end of the third.

 

15 rounds. I am going with Jack Dempsey. And I would not dismiss the possibility that he could win by a 15 round decision either.

 

That's my thoughts, Jeffries is far more hittable than Dempsey and that ain't good for Jeff.

 

Dempsey via mid to 3/4 rds KO/TKO.

Jeffries is there to be hit. Old Fitz had no trouble finding Jeffries in their belated, 1902 rematch. Dempsey knows how to hit and hit hard. It will be the hardest the Boilermaker will have ever been hit, particularly in concentrated fashion. Dempsey's hitting will be at its most intense for, say, the first 4 rounds. However, his power won't just disappear, but the rate of incomings will decrease somewhat over the duration of the fight. The Brennan title defense actually upheld Dempsey's stamina very well. Tough fight but Dempsey still tenacious, grafting away effectively with a KO punch carried through to the 12th round. Not to make excuses but a partying Dempsey was allegedly under trained, in less-than-ideal condition for the 1920 Brennan match. To gage this possibility, one might look to Dempsey's first match with Brennan in 1918 when JD KO'd Bill in 6 rounds during his tear toward a title match vs Willard. And, Brennan was no slouch, a very good fighter in fact. Even in 1923, after 2 years inactivity, Dempsey did very well boxing 15 active rounds with the crafty, evasive Gibbons. If it goes into the later rounds, it won't be as if Jeffries hung in there, undamaged via clever defense. If the fight moves on beyond the mid-way point and Dempsey does slow down, he would've already doled out a huge amount of punishment to Jeffries from which the Boilermaker could not come back from anyway.

 

Its very possible he did improve but to use either as a yard stick for improvement would be highly unreliable and misleading.As I stated Corbett was thoroughly washed up and having eye problems he'd been retired for 3 years and was nearly 37 years old. A boxer like Corbett relies heavily on his reflexes his timing and of course his legs,3 years of retirement at that age when 37 was equivalent to todays 47 would have meant significant deterioration in the physical qualities I mentioned.Munroe was no more than a trial horse .
A year after Jeffries emabrrassed him he fought Jack Johnson who used him as a mobile heavybag. After that debacle ringsiders remarked that Munroe did not even know how to punch properly .

• • 
    According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.
    
    "...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."
    
  I ask again, whose ability wouldn't be flattered being matched with those two?

 

Visualizing Dempsey after reading his biography and watching footage, he was a fierce leopard. A prototype of Iron Mike. Fast with power in both hands, good head movement, vicious, good balance and non stop pressure. Sunday punch is a sizzling hook, but is known for stringing together several punches for amazing combinations. Was a very fast starter, but tended to slow down late. Could occasionally be overly aggressive and lacked in defense.

Trying to visualize Jefferies based on fight reports, I think of a big, slow, lethargic bear who has been dominating an ecosystem with it's sheer size and strength. Jefferies enjoyed significant weight advantages in several fights and would sometimes wins primarily due to his ability to absorb punishment. Think of a bear who bullies a smarter, faster, more capable pair of wolves who took down a deer but lose their kill due to the fact the bear just won't die and can take their bites before chasing them off. Of his good qualities, Jeff had tremendous heart, was a dedicated body puncher, had good balance, and was always in shape with tons of stamina.

I think if you get the leopard in there with the lethargic, slow bear whose used to just bullying smaller wolves, the leopard would surprise eventually wear the bear down with speed and power the bear isn't used to. In other words, Dempsey keeps darting in and out, landing 2-3 punches for every 1 due to the superior hand speed, uses his head movement to avoid Jeff's big bombs, and stops him late around the 10th-11th rounds.

 

The testimony of Graney and others, suggests that they are seeing Jeffries doing things that he never did before.

I think it is entirely possible that Corbett was as bad as you say, but the doubt kind of cuts both ways.

It is not impossible that he was still capable of beating some of the contenders of the day.

I won't pretend to think very highly of Munro, indeed I have described him as a manufactured fighter, and Jeffries seems to agree with me.

However Jeffries dealt with him the way that you would expect him to deal with such a fighter.

Jeffries basically retired because he thought that there were no white contenders left fighting, but in hindsight a fight against Hart or even Ferguson, might have been informative.

 

Possibly the main reason to give Dempsey an edge even in a fight to the finish is possibly superior infighting ability..

 

Nice post.

Close enough for hand grenades: Grizzly vs Cougar. To skip the Bear’s protracted, up hill ring walk, skip to 1:10 for the brief engagement.

It’s a female cougar so we’ll call her Jackie. The bear of course remains as Jeff.

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Personally, I love Grizzlies, and on this occasion, I think the bear could’ve prevailed if inclined to go balls to the wall but, given Momma Cougar’s protective stoicism, the big fella decides it’s not worth working that hard for this particular meal.

Imagine going to McDonalds and having to duke it out each and every time just for your McHappy Meal?

The Grizz looks well fed as it is. Essentially, he’s after a feed, not a fight so much and there’s likely easier, less arduous take out options elsewhere. Lol.

 

So you're saying Jack Dempseys mother would run Jefferies out of the ring? Makes sense.

 

I had to make do with what was available on Da Tube, some mental tweaking was required BUT we can move with your interpretation - I like it.

It just so happens that JD’s Mama (who JD resembled) was quite the sought after “cougar” back in the day.

Different times, different appreciation of looks OR maybe they drank that much more heavily in their day for a deeper and more broad beer goggle effect.

What were we talking about again?