How many of Larry Holmes losses did you think were robberies ?

Yes but the point is thats all Tucker is known for, he wasn't particularly that competitive vs Tyson or Lewis. Ok fair play he went the distance and showed some toughness.

But where are the stand out performances ? He never beat any top 10 Heavyweight impressively. He didn't fight any of the 80s alphabet champions or contenders like Page, Thomas, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, etc. His best win is coming from way behind vs Douglas who wasn't highly thought of at the time, he got a complete gift vs Orlin Norris, and just about edged past Oliver McCall via SD. And thats his best wins of his entire career thats not really setting world alight.

And your bringing his 2 losses in 14 years without context so let me tell you. His first 30 or so fights were against absolute nobodies no one in the top 10.

I'm sorry i think he's vastly overrated for just going the distance vs Tyson, Lewis, in fights that wern't competitive. I ask you this did Tony Tucker ever impress you in any of his actual victories ?

 

Of course he impressed me otherwise I would never back him to defeat Larry Holmes, albeit a past it overweight version.
First let’s talk about his victory over Buster Douglas. Whether Douglas was highly thought of by you, he was by others. He was a talented fighter and Tucker stopped him. Whether he was behind on points or not…and incidentally I scored it pretty close…Douglas was TKO’d. That was a very impressive victory. It always makes me laugh when people talk about a come from behind victory as if it minimises the win. Well it doesn’t. Tucker hung in there, rolled with the punches then stopped the man who eventually stopped THE MAN of the 1980s. Superb finish from TT.

As for his long run against “nobodies” as you call them were all steps on the ladder. Yes he took his time getting to the summit but he got there…or almost. And don’t dismiss his defeat to Tyson by seeing the wide points defeat. That performance by Tucker was a good one. He jabbed well, moved well, hit Tyson with some hard shots, and was never in any danger of being stopped. He was fighting an ATG who was at the top of his game, and was expected to be blasted out by halfway by many.

This version of Tucker beats a past it Holmes in my opinion.

 

So the Douglas win impressed you that much ? i thought it was a very uneventful fight that Douglas was handily winning, until Douglas decided to pull a Golota and quit. The problem is with what your saying is that your talking in hindsight, how highly was Douglas thought of in 87 ? Douglas has only grown in reputation after his big upset win over Mike Tyson, in which he did have a fantastic performance but that wasn't really the norm for Douglas. But does a hindsight win over Mike Tyson, improve Tucker's victory over Douglas 3 years previously ?

The point i'm trying to make is that Tucker never convincingly beat any top 10 Heavyweight in his career, and no i don't consider a come from behind quit job from Douglas as a convincing highlight win. Go back to the 80's Heavyweights and whilst they were lazy and inconsistent, all of them have atleast a convincing win over a top name.

Page had highlight wins over Coetzee, Snipes, Tillis.

Thomas had highlight wins over Weaver, Witherspoon.

etc.

But that is true though Tucker did fight absolute nobodies in his first 30 or so fights, you were trying to say Tucker's 2 losses in 14 years was impressive. But the context of those opponents during that time were very unimpressive, his only notable wins during those 14 years was vs Douglas a quit job, Norris highly controversial which many thought Norris won, and finally a razor thin decision vs McCall. And whilst going the distance with a prime Tyson is a good achievement, he still never came anywhere close to beating Mike Tyson. It's not like Witherspoon vs Holmes where Witherspoon gave an ATG Holmes a life and death encounter.

The big problem i have with Tucker overall is that there's no real stand out wins or performances on his record, had Tucker beat the likes of Witherspoon, Page, Tubbs, Thomas, etc. You could compare his performances and say yeah this one or that one was a good performance, but you don't really that with Tucker's resume. Apart from his losses to well known fighters his resume outside of that is largely forgettable.

 

Great post you summed it up better than i could.

 

I was a boxing fan in the 1980s. I watched many, many fights and when I wasn’t watching fights, I was reading about them. After wiping out Greg Page there was a bit of talk about this guy Buster Douglas who was on the rise. He then became the no1 or 2 contender with the IBF.
So the Tucker vs Douglas fight was sanctioned and was seen by many as a 50/50 match.
If Douglas quit in the fight, it was Tucker that made him quit. Tucker rallied late on and stopped him in his tracks. You disingenuously dismiss it as Tucker beating a little thought of contender who was a “quit job.” In reality it was a fight between two evenly matched top 1980s fighters for a version of the title. Tucker prevailed and earned his shot.

You dismiss Tucker’s resume…some would say rightly so…but just because he didn’t fight certain boxers doesn’t actually show how he would have performed against them. At most it leaves question marks against him.

Then you belittle his victories…either he beat nobodies or he scraped past those who were rated. Or he got a lucky win over Orlin Norris. I watched the fight…I gave it to Tucker by 2pts but I’ll watch it again.You have a very negative spin on anything he did and anything he didn’t do. That’s Your view but not one I hold with.

My take is Tucker was a very good fighter who up until the Tyson fight did everything that was asked of him, beat everybody put in front of him.

After that, Tucker got into drugs and this derailed his career for a couple of years plus, but back he came and built up another unbeaten run. Up until Lewis.

So maybe you say he’s overrated but in truth I think history has put him where he should be. Most people I hear talking about him say he had lots of talent but was unproven in many ways.
That’s not overrated. That’s about right I’d say. And tipping him to beat an over the hill Holmes who struggled badly in some of his last few fights as champion, is no great leap.

 

Spinks 2 and Nielsen. Especially Nielsen. I had that one as a win for Holmes, and the robbery cost him the spot as the oldest HW champ ever.

 

If Tucker was going to win, ~ 38 or so would be the best age. 42-43 year old Holmes was better than 38 year old Holmes. At 38 he hasn't yet adapted fully to being older. By 43 he had fully figured out how to maximize what he had left.

 

As @mr. magoo pointed out the Tucker/Douglas fight is only remembered, because of what Douglas did vs Tyson 3 years later. The fight itself was very uneventful and not particularly memorable or seen as a big fight. Douglas wasn't really a big or known name at the time, his status only really become known after the Tyson win, in which was an unusual set of circumstances with Douglas's mom dying. Which made him more motivated than ever where he fought the fight of his life, if Douglas had never beat Tyson the fight vs Tucker would never have been remembered in all honesty.

I just don't see it as an impressive win without hindsight of the Tyson win, with the context of the win or the manner in which Tucker did win. I remember watching Douglas/McCall this year, and the fight was so bad an uneventful one of the commentators said "none of these fighters can fight lick" so that just shows you the general perception of Douglas at that time.

I dismiss it because there isn't that much there to work with, regarding actual stand out performances or victories. Your judging Tucker mostly on one sided losses in which he went the distance vs great fighters, which is admirable and fair play to Tucker. But Tucker never actually came close to beating either fighter, and the fact he didn't really beat any of the notable 80's Heavyweights, which you just said yourself is why i do have major question marks.

I'm not trying to belittle his victories the fact is as i said, there isn't much in the way of stand out victories for him. You can check his record yourself a majority of his first 30 odd fights were against unknowns. And the few victories he did have over known opponents were not in anyway impressive. As i said a highly controversial win over Orlin Norris in which crowd booed and commentators thought he lost, a quit job by Douglas after Douglas was way ahead on points, and as stated Douglas wasn't highly thought of at that time.

If Tucker had beaten one of the known 80's Heavyweights and was impressive in doing it, i would gladly point it out and give him praise for it. But the fact is that doesn't exist on Tucker's resume and your rating him mostly on his losses.

I would say he's overrated due to how highly he is favoured in H2H match ups, and that quite alot of people rate him as one of the best Heavyweights of the 80s. I had a discussion a few days ago with a poster on a Tony Tucker thread, and he stated he thought Tucker was rated 3rd best Heavyweight behind Tyson, Holmes. When you have fighters like Page, Thomas, Witherspoon, Coetzee, Weaver, Tubbs, who all achieved more than Tucker did in the 80s.

Finally i don't dislike Tony Tucker i just call it as i see it, i never have any biased opinions when discussing fighters i like or dislike. It's just Tucker's resume regarding actual victories or stand out performances is very shallow.

 

Spinks II and Nielson

 

Spinks 2 - Clearly
Nelson - By 2 rounds or so

McCall edged the old master.

 

It's when the fights happened that mean something. A prime Tyson, and pre prime Lewis decision looses mean something. And he hurt his hand vs Tyson in round one. Wins over Douglas , Broad, McCall, and Norris is a quality resume. A top 75 heavyweight, I think

 

"It's when the fights happened that mean something"

Well if that's the case why should the Douglas win be rated high then ? Douglas was not highly thought of at the time. The only reason people even remember Tucker/Douglas, is because of what Douglas did 3 years later vs Tyson. And Douglas doing a quit job after being well ahead on points, is not what i can a standout performance from Tucker.

Tucker lost in one sided fashion to both Lewis and Tyson, and whilst it's admirable he went the distance. Fighters like Mavrovic went the distance with a prime Lewis, and Tillis also went the distance with Tyson, and both gave them tougher fights than what Tucker did.

Orlin Norris was not even ranked in the top 10, and it was a highly disputed decision in which many thought Tucker lost.

James Broad really ?

Tucker resume wise would barely make my top 10 Heavyweights of the 80s, as i said a lack of "stand out" wins/performances against known opposition, not just well known losses in which he lost both fights very one sidedly on scorecards.

 

I never said you disliked Tucker…but I get the impression your views about him are entrenched. I’ll give you an example: You mentioned Greg Page as one of these top 1980s fighters who Tucker didn’t fight. Ok. Then you say one of Tucker’s victims, Buster Doug

I didn’t say you disliked Tucker but your views about him seem fairly entrenched.
I’ll give you an example…you insinuate that Greg Page is one of the top guys in the 1980s and if Tucker had beaten him you would have acknowledged it and praised him. Ok that’s fair enough.
But Buster Douglas beat Greg Page a couple of fights before meeting Tucker, so surely in your view, there was something about Buster that was pretty impressive? After all he defeated one of the better guys in the 80s. Yes? No?
You don’t appear to be impressed by Buster beating Page though…is this because if you acknowledged that particular Douglas victory, you’d have to give Tucker his dues?

 

Well how many fighters did well vs Tyson? Just one until the mid 1990's in Douglas. How many fighter did beat well Lewis in 1990's? Just one and that would be Oliver McCall. Who beat both of them? Only Tucker! And going the distance with Tyson and Lewis means something.

Tucker was injured vs Tyson. Surely if his hand was well he would have done better.

Yeah lots felt James Broad would be something. Early in his career he beat James Smith. He lot to Tucker and Witherspoon and I hear lost really close one to Greg Page in a SD fight where Page was floored. Didn't see that one yet.