How many of Larry Holmes losses did you think were robberies ?

Greg Page has his share of fans on this forum, and the reason for Holmes not meeting him is one of them.

 

Well i think Greg Page during 86 era was beginning of his steep decline as a fighter, and he was done as a top fighter at that point. As he went on to lose to journeyman Mark Wills the same year and never beat anyone of note again. I feel like Page had two points in his career which you could consider his "peak" 81 to 82 up until he lost to Berbick, and then the end of 82 right up until the end of 83 when he was Holmes's mandatory, and then he had surprisingly one last good performance vs Coetzee in 84. And then after that he was done after lackluster performance vs Tubbs, and then he just went further and further downhill from that point on.

I think your misunderstanding what i'm saying, when i'm talking about "stand out impressive wins over known names". To give you an example of some of the notable 80's Heavyweight performances. I'm talking like Page over Coetzee, Coetzee over Dokes, Thomas over Witherspoon etc.

When you watch Tucker vs Douglas, Norris, McCall. Do you think Tucker really looked good in these fights ? Those are his 3 best wins of his career, and he didn't shine in any of these fights and was lucky not to lose to Norris.

And that's what i mean overall when i say Tucker never impressed me in any of his most notable victories, and outside of his losses to Tyson, Lewis, his actual resume is a very forgettable one.

 

Actually i'm much more of a fan of Larry Holmes than i am Greg Page, the Holmes career set was the first box set my dad ever bought me, and some of my top 10 favourite Heavyweight fights include Holmes in them. But i call every situation as i see it, and i never show any biased agenda to any fighter whether i'm a fan of them or not.

 

I already told you James Tillis did, and some people felt he beat Tyson although i don't share that opinion. Again i don't see anyone rating Tillis highly in H2H match ups based on that, most people had Tucker losing in the region of 9-3 vs Tyson, at no point in the fight did Tucker ever look like winning, and he mostly looked to survive in the 2nd half of the fight. Tucker deserves praise for lasting the distance vs Tyson, but again he was never really that competitive with Tyson nor did he come close to winning.

As for how many fighters did well vs Lewis in 90s ? quite a few Mercer who arguably beat him, Bruno, Holyfield 2 who arguably beat him, Mavrovic, Mason, and Briggs had his moments rocking Lewis and almost dropping him in the 1st round. Again Tucker never really made any impression against Lewis who never really got out of first gear, and easily beat Tucker in the region of 10-2, 9-3, whilst scoring two knockdowns on route to a very wide points win.

Your really bringing up James Broad beating Bonecrusher Smith in his debut fight to make a case for Broad ? Broad lost to every worthwhile Heavyweight he ever fought, and got destroyed by Witherspoon in 2 rounds when Tucker went 12 with him a year later. Page in 87 by that time was a journeyman having lost to a fighter like Mark Wills.

 

The only true robbery Larry had was again Brian Nielsen. Holmes won that fight. I had it scored 9-3. And that was being generous to Nielsen.

 

You know, Broad could be a pretty entertaining fighter at times in the early 80s, used to watch him on I think the USA channel. He did horribly choke when he stepped up the competition.

 

I heard he was a decent Amateur but he never really made it as a pro, a case of another 80s Heavyweight being grossly too overweight

 

It really was a bizarre tendency in the 80s, not just with him and Tubbs. Page was looking pretty portly at times, kind of shameful, really.

 

That why Holmes was the best during his era, he was a model professional never out of shape never abused any substances. And whilst he did have off nights he was still consistent, which means he could get himself out of sticky situations when he wasn't always on it.

People think i dislike Holmes because i seem to get into these debates, about Holmes's questionable defences during the end of his reign.

But hes actually one of my favourite Heavyweights Weaver 1, Norton, Witherspoon, are some of my favourite Heavyweight fights ever.

 

Those are all great! Sometimes I wonder if the Spoon fight was his greatest, in all the heart and courage and experience he portrayed. Spoon had him in the 9th, and he brought up everything in him to get back into the fight.

 

The Norton fight is a classic. One of the finest examples of two highly skilled technicians going at it.

 

DP…I get what you’re saying. You don’t rate his victories over the bigger names, his Resume stinks and you think he’s rated highly by some mainly due to going the distance with two ATG KO Kings.

But I respectfully disagree on some things.
He was a fighter who in his prime lost only to Iron Mike. You might think he stank the place out beating the likes of Douglas, Norris and McCall, but I don’t agree. He beat them all…two of them future World champions…and he deservedly earned another title shot 7 years or so after his first one.

In between those two title shots the guy got into drugs which derailed his career for a while. But he fought back from that and almost got to the very top after almost destroying his career and kudos to him for that. To me that shows great determination and lots of ability.

We won’t agree on this so I’ll say, thanks for the debate. I’m going to rewatch the Norris/Tucker fight again and post my scorecard on the What fights You Watched page.

 

No problem mate i enjoyed the little back and forth, again i wasn't trying to change your opinion thats just how i see it. If you see it differently then that's fair enough.

 

Just to bump this thread a Larry Holmes fight i've wanted to see for a long time, has finally surfaced on YT his fight vs Quinn Navarre. I've heard this was a close fight so i'm interested to see it.

@RulesMakeItInteresting might be interested in this one aswell.

 

Hey, very cool thanks for bringing this up!