Is GGG a top 10 Middleweight of all time

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Dec 12, 2022.


Is GGG a top 10 Middleweight ever

Poll closed Dec 19, 2022.
  1. Yes

    30.9%
  2. No

    69.1%
  1. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, I do. I only have the 11 fighters I posted earlier in this thread plus Apostoli (when I get home last night I checked my notes & I have Fred at 12 & GGG at 13) ahead of GGG.

    If I were to relist my top 20 MWs purely based on number of wins over historically significant (say top 100 all time) MWs, then GGG would likely be at or close to no.20.

    I accept I factor consistent domination and prime losses more heavily into my ranking criteria, relative to depth of win resume from a historical perspective, than most. I actually lean towards Mendoza's view of ranking a fighter based on how dominant they were in their own era, just not to the same absolute extent he is doing in this instance.
     
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  2. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Bunk point. Amir Khan weighed in at 155 against Canelo. Doesn't mean he was bigger than 154 Charlo. Anybody can gain weight.

    Golovkin never in his life was small enough to make 147 and 154 like Canelo. He was the natuallary bigger man.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ah, sorry, you were joking about all time h2h? Well, in that case, I'd rank Marciano absolutely nowhere on a h2h heavy list - but he'd be high, high on my super-middleweight rankings!

    Ketchel in his key year 1908: Mike Twin Sullivan; Jack Twin Sullivan; Billy Papke; Hugo Kelly; Joe Thomas; Billy Papke (LOSS); Billy Papke. This is the best MW in the world excepting himself 2-3 times, world ranked type guys, an old foe who extended him back int he day.

    Golovkin key year 2017: Daniel Jacobs. Canelo (DRAW).

    Say what you like about filler, but when it comes right down to it, the distance between what they did in their own eras is massive.

    Ketchel, as I explained, was not a middlewieght by modern standards. At his very best he came to the ring just over the modern lmw limit, at his slovenly worst weiging 170lbs. Golovkin would be massive next to him, and this goes for most modern guys. Comparing modern MWs to Ketchel era MWs is not sensible.
     
  4. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    GGG wouldn't be able to complete at MW with same day weigh in. He's a 175 pounder in those days.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  5. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Totally agree with your last assertion, of all the fighters that I have longed to see, Ketchel loomed large, like all of us I had read dozens of articles over the years about his exploits, his fighting style, the shift, he was the Assassin, a killer , no nonsense come forward wrecker of opponents, all the scribes and all his peers had him as a fearsome near mythical figure, for decades I had him at 2/3 in my top ten ( how silly looking back ) then came the advent of YT, OH DEAR, was their 2 Ketchell's ?? soooo disappointed, he looked abysmal, lunging, jumping, running backwards, my idol truly had feet of clay, on what I saw, not only do not rate him in my top ten, I would go as far as to say most of the MW champs down the ages would have the best of him, thanks for the memories.....
    stay safe guys.
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well if the poll said top middle 15 weight you and I would agree...as I suspect the majority of this forum would. You have him at #13. Not too far from where I have him. Besides I don't put much stock into poll like this without seeing who voted for who. I respect your position, we are not far apart. But some guys just for to have to place their black and white filmed heroes on such lists. In some cases they haven't seen much them on him...or none at all. GGG is not American or Western European and IMO receives extra player hating because of it. Dino is an example of such a poster. Never has a nice thing to say about the Klitschko's or GGG.

    Okay you have one historian who made a top 50 Middle weight list, I stand corrected, its one! My point is very few have done so! Any more? I'm not familiar with Troy or Farage either :)

    Anyways my top 20 middle weights who be ( I consider men 154-160 to be middles ) as the was no 154 pound class back then.

    1 ) Greb
    2 ) SRR
    3 ) Hagler
    4 ) Fitzsimmons
    5 ) Monzon
    6 ) Jones
    7 ) Hopkins
    8 ) GGG* Still active
    9 ) Walker
    10 ) Leonard ( for his wins over Hagler , Hearns and Duarn )
    11 ) Cerdan
    12 ) Burley
    13 ) Zale
    14 ) Gibbons
    15 ) Lamotta
    17) Steele
    18 ) Williams
    19 ) Tiger
    20 ) * Alverez has much of his career left.


    Something like that. It's off the top of my head I might have forgotten someone. Just kidding on Canelo, like I said his career is not near over yet! For now give me Ryan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    One of the few times I agree with Dino. 160 guys today are actually 175 guys back then. You can actually see this in their frames. GGG who has been a medium sized modern middleweight looks like the hulk compared to some of those old timers that had same day weigh ins. Golovkin would either barely make a same day weigh in or be dried out at fight time and not as effective as he is under modern rules. It's why I laugh when people say things like "FuLLmEr* WouLd Be tOO sTRonG". No, he wouldn't. Golovkin is in the next division, to be quite fair.

    *or whichever old time 160 guy
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It is fun to think of Golovkin whacking steaks in him to gain weight for a fight with Dempsey.
     
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I'm not sure GGG is the right style to have a chance as the smaller man against Dempsey. Golovkin is used to being the bigger puncher, better chin, harder man in his fights. He's used to taking the other guy's best shot and telling him to throw more. Not sure that's a good idea vs Dempsey.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Be interesting to see how Dempsey would cope with the Golovkin jab, but yeah you'd expect him to get toasted.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well I don't agree with Dino. GGG has always weighted in at 160 same weight as Monzon and Hagler. Does he mention that. Of course not doesn't fit his agenda. Guys can rehydrate and there is now a 168 pound class. But having said that the BS on the scales is ruining lower weight boxing for those who really care about it Junior flyweight, Super flyweight, and Super bantam weight. Three unnecessary divisors where a few pounds can make the jump. Or a rehydration after the weight in.
     
  12. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Yeah but you well know that on fight night the modern boxers are a good deal larger than the same day weigh in guys. Some of the modern bigger middles weigh in over 180 when they go into the ring. And we can see that a dehydrated middle looks nowehre near as effective or as tough as they would normally. Geale looked like a waxwork when he weighed in for Cotto and he was limited in his hydration. He crumbled as a result.

    If you watch Hagler and GGG it's clear to my eyes at least that the guys saying Hagler would be "too strong" for Golovkin don't know what they are talking about. To quick - maybe. It's clear Hagler is faster than Golovkin and he should be - he's virtually a lower weight class.
     
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  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    If they were the same size Golovkin would wipe Dempsey out. He's like Tunney only much better.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    While what you say is true, I'm saying GGG weighed in the exact same weight that Hagler and Monzon did it and at was always 160 or below. You could say the average GGG's contenders are bigger than Hagler's or Monzon's...especially the ones who moved up form lower weight division. So I get what you saying.

    A point I've made before is the Cotto's, Martinez's and middles avoided GGG. They did not or have all the options that Monzon or Hagler opponents did.

    There is a reason why you don't see any good middles under 5'9" anymore, but in the past you do. Both guys fought load of smaller guys.

    You struck upon some uncovered ground where some consider it blasphemy to admit what you and I are saying. Well done.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
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  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Yeah and it would be interesting to see to how Dempsey did vs Greb too.
     
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