Who's The Worst Possible Match Up, For Vitali Klitschko?

Between 1996 -2003 Vitali fought 2 guys from the Ring top 10 - an aged Lewis who took the fight on short notice and Kirk Johnson.

In that 7 year window when there was loads of good fighters in the top 10 , an overweight Kirk Johnson was his best win.

Then the division went to crap and you had 90's leftover contenders like Corrie Sanders becoming highly ranked champions.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but Corrie Sanders was never rated in the top 10 in 90s was he ? it was only after his upset win over Wladimir Klitschko in 2003 that he become rated.

And regarding Kirk Johnson you probably see my reply earlier in this thread, i compared Johnson vs Klitschko to Bonecrusher vs Witherspoon 2. Both men were ridiculously out of a shape and didn't even come into the fight to win.

 

Wrong, there is nothing Toney can do in this fight, and he's not out thinking Vitali who was a master of distance. He'd keep the range that is ideal for him and forces the other guy to confront it or cover up where the short armed Toney could not counter! Vitali is not one who is going to tire and allow the fat and lethargic Toney an opportunity to counter. You are outrageous to claim otherwise and Toney lost twice to Sam Peter, a man Vitali fisted and did not lose a round to Peter! I like to see this mis-match. I'm more than sure Toney would get his " lights " punched out.

 

Kirk Johnson was a talent and ring rated. He has wins over Oleg Maskev, Al Cole, Lou Saveresse. He was DQ'd vs Ruiz who was also part of the fouling in a mess of a close world tile fight . And of course he was blown away and knocked out only by Vitali.

Anual rankings

As selected by The Ring magazine in the [url]May 2001[/url] issue.

1. [url]Lennox Lewis[/url]
2. [url]Mike Tyson[/url]
3. [url]Kirk Johnson[/url]
4. [url]Evander Holyfield[/url]
5. [url]David Tua[/url]
6. [url]Wladimir Klitschko[/url]
7. [url]Oleg Maskaev[/url]
8. [url]Michael Grant[/url]
9. [url]Hasim Rahman[/url]
10. [url]Chris Byrd[/url]

As selected by The Ring magazine in the 2002 issue.

[url]Lennox Lewis[/url], Champion

1. [url]Wladimir Klitschko[/url]
2. [url]Chris Byrd[/url]
3. [url]David Tua[/url]
4. [url]Evander Holyfield[/url]
5. [url]John Ruiz[/url]
6. [url]Hasim Rahman[/url]
7. [url]Vitali Klitschko[/url]
8. [url]Kirk Johnson[/url]
9. [url]Mike Tyson[/url]
10. [url]Jameel McCline[/url]

As Selected by ring magazine in 2000.

[url]Lennox Lewis[/url], Champion

1. [url]Wladimir Klitschko[/url]
2. [url]Mike Tyson[/url]
3. [url]Chris Byrd[/url]
4. [url]Hasim Rahman[/url]
5. [url]Kirk Johnson[/url]
6. [url]Evander Holyfield[/url]
7. [url]John Ruiz[/url]
8. [url]Jameel McCline[/url]
9. [url]Fres Oquendo[/url]
10. [url]David Tua[/url]

 

I am not saying Toney wins the fight - possible, but not probable.

Toney is famous for his outstanding boxing brain - to suggest Vitali has a higher boxing IQ in the ring is ridiculous to me. You're pouring the love on Vitali a little thick lol. Aren't you satisfied with all of the actual advantages he would have, like height strength reach stamina etc?

What are you going to tell me next; Vitali was better defensively, too?

 

He seems like he has a lot of 'inside' knowledge.

 

Okay then, I mis read you intentions. Vitali has a high boxing IQ too by the way. My point is there is little Toney could due in ring generalship and Vitali knows where he is effective and his opponent is not. This is not ridiculous. He shows it in multiple fights. Toney's ring smarts amounted to a hill of bean vs Roy Jones, Drake Tadzhi, Dave Tiberi, Mike Mcallcum. Sam Peter, and Monell Giriffin, didn't they? He did not out smart them, and IMO he would not do it to Vitali Klitschko. If you took my reply the wrong way I apologize. It was in reply to you saying.

When will people learn that illogical, outrageous claims make one's statements less credible

My claim you agree with and the conclusion. The floor is yours to show me how Toney would " out smart " Vitali Kiltschko. I'll be sure to read it. You can impress me by constructing it and backing it up with logical and ring examples.

 

Yes but we've already clarified Kirk Johnson was a beached whale when he fought Vitali, and was in no physical shape to actually fight. He didn't even show up in the fight, as i said comparable to Witherspoon vs Bonecrusher 2nd time.

To quote Larry Merchant "That whale was just harpooned"

260 pounds vs Vitali.....

 

Styles make fights. Vitali had trouble with slicksters like Byd, Gomez and Johnson (who really fough a poor man's JT's style fight).

Against Toney, I think Vitali has still to be favoured by close decision just as the Ring put it. He would lool very awakard in that fight but his physical advantages are just huge (it is almost unfair ).

 

All of the losses you mentioned have context to them, as any ATG can be shown to have their tough outings & bad performances brought up. It proves nothing.

For you to continue making ridiculous claims to support your Vitali love, just shows bias and a lack of clear thinking.

"Toney's ring smarts amounted to a hill of beans vs McCallum"..........this is obvious bias. Toney BEAT him!

So do you think Vitali was a better defensive fighter than Toney? Second time I asked.

 

Can some explain to Blade that Vitali shut out Kevin Johnson 120-108 on two cards and was ahead 119-109 on the other , and 79-72 and 80-72 on the other card before knocking him out? Yeah he had trouble just like you said. Forget the fact that he was much older. Hurt vs a torn shoulder vs Byrd his was way up 89-72 and 88-83 before surrendering with and torn shoulder. And I say he was in-experienced coming into this fight vs a prime Chris Byrd.

He would beat on and punish Toney, get real kiddo. Got it?

 

Sure Vitali got hit a heck of a lot less at heavyweight than James Toney did. Check the punch stats in the Peter fight! Or any fight vs ranked competition! Its fact! That should explain it to you. Same man. Vitali also moved around the ring way better and had a way of using his height, reach, and jab in ways Toney just can't! He made Lewis miss badly, worse than anyone did! If you looking for Toney to duck or dodge his way ( it didn't happen often in the fights I mentioned ) okay maybe Toney had that type of defense in some of his fights, but he got hit a lot didn't he? That would be a yes. Boxing is the hit and not get hit game. And Toney got hit more often. How was that reply?

Now maybe you can show me how Toney would " out smart " Vitali. You can impress me by constructing it and backing it up with logical and ring examples which would apply. I'm asking you to do this again, don't "duck " out to this, which is one thing I agree Toney is better at. When you are that tall ( 6'7 1/2 " ) , you don't get a chance to do it much, but Vitali did in fact do just that vs a slick like Vaughn Bean.

By now you just might understand that I'm not a typical " fan boy ". I know the history, styles and can explain them almost as good as a trainer can, framing all of the above content in on film.

 

Johsnon made Vitali look silly. Thats just the reality. You want stats? Vitali missed 800 of his punches. His connect rate for a guy standing in front of him was terrible. He just couldn't penetrate the shoulder roll
Johnson was never hurt or ever came close to going down. Vitali's arm punching was ineffective. . AJ blew Johnson away in 1.5 rounds becuae he had hooks , uppercuts and skill.

 

You're way too attached to Vitali for me to keep responding.

You are saying Vitali was better defensively than James Toney - what on earth do I do with that? How would I ever hope to get a point across to you?

Was Vitali's defense better than Floyd's? How about Benitez? Benny Leonard?

Was Vitali's footwork better than Pep's? How about Ali? Robinson?