Joe Frazier. Do You Believe He Could Have Beaten Other ATG s...

I don't think Usyk beats Frazier the way to beat Usyk is with pressure, an ATG swarmer is a bad style match up for a boxer like Usyk. Someone like Chisora gave Usyk a few uncomfortable moments with his pressure, Breidis also run Usyk very close with his pressure.

Holyfield likes to brawl too much and that would be his downfall vs Frazier IMO.

I agree with your other picks although Bowe has no defence, and doesn't like to use his god given attributes he has. And he hasn't fought many Heavyweight who hit that hard like Frazier does with his left hook. Holyfield decked and almost stopped Bowe with a left hook in their 3rd fight.

And there's a chance Frazier could catch Wladimir, who doesn't like it when he's forced out of his comfort zone. Lets not forget what happened vs Lamon Brewster who kept coming and coming until Wladimir wilted.

 

I wouldn’t back too many pre 70s ATGs against FOTC Frazier. But one particularly dangerous and interesting opponent for him would be a prime Joe Louis. I would want the front seat for that brawl

 

I agree with much pretty much all your picks, except i think it's possible Tyson could blow away Frazier early before he's allowed to get into the fight. And also Joe Louis i think Frazier beats Louis the 1st time and then loses a rematch. I recall Godoy who was classed as a swarmer ? gave Louis all he could handle barely losing by SD. I think Frazier does one better and actually beats Louis, although i see Louis making the necessary adjustments to win a rematch.

 

IMO, best version of Frazier (March 1971) loses to best versions of


Joe Louis
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko


50-50 propositions

Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Wlad Klitschko
Tyson Fury

For everybody else, I would make Joe the favourite.

 

Neither fury, nor usyk had hammer like power to keep Joe outside, and none of them could run fast enough to avoid joe cutting the ring off and making them fight a war. Both would have to fight a war, and joe would smoke them on the inside.
In any event, none of them are ATG's so.........

Same thing with evander holyfield, but with his great chin and ferocious will to survive and win, the fight might go the distance. He would not win though, joe was tougher (according to foreman), better conditioned and with more raw power.

Wladimir had real power, he might be able to hit Joe hard enough to stop him, but due to his chin, he was afraid to unload and bring the thunder, which forced him to grab his opponents, clinch like hell and wear his opponents down with his size. Would that strategy work against smokin joe ? I don't think so, frazier would actually have a clue how to counter Wlad's bullying tactics, he would slip up under his guard and beat his body up and stops him.

I've already mentioned in my first post, that Tyson, Lewis and Bowe would have a reasonable chance against a peak smokin' joe. But none of them would be strongly favored over him.

Riddick Bowe and Lennox lewis MIGHT be to able to halt Joe's advance with theirs powerful jabs, But i'm not so sure about that. Foreman was stronger and hit harder than both of them, AND evander holyfield, despite not being as tough as Joe, turned out to be the toughest opponent Lewis and Bowe have ever met.

Vitali? Now that's a nice catch, completely forgot about him. But for the same reason mentioned above, i would say it's a toss up.

 

All I know is that I'd love to see Frazier vs. Holyfield. Would be a FOTC type war.

 

So Foreman gives more credit to the man he steamrolled than to the man who, let's be honest, used his face as a speedbag for 12 rounds? I could see a Frazier-Holyfield battle going either way. Each has some advantages over the other, and both are true warriors with a champion's heart. Whatever happens, it will not be an easy fight either way. It'll be brutal. Both will probably be taken directly to the hospital after for lengthy stays.

 

Liston, Ali, Foreman,Holmes, Lewis and Fury beat him to varying degrees some extremely close.
I think he beats most of the rest I’m not sure about Joe Louis and Holyfield.
I don’t think Louis would have ever faced some one of the ilk of the swarming Frazier.
Having said that Louis would be unloading some serious leather onto Frazier particularity early on when Frazier’s a bit more vulnerable.I think Frazier would possibly survive a knockdown and pressurise Louis enough to gain a late stoppage.
If Holyfield chose to box and use his skills he could eke out a hard fought decision win, if he got into a firefight he’d probably be stopped.

 

Well....frazier fought the T rex Foreman.
Evander, on the other hand, got into the ring with diplodocus version.
And yes, it would a brutal war in any event. I just think that in a brawl like this, the fact that frazier had more advantages (Vander had faster hands, but Joe was tougher, better conditioned with more raw power.) makes him, atleast in my eyes, the clear favorite in this matchup

 

The insanely hateful, madly determined, unstoppable Frazier of FOTC beats any heavyweight champ at their best.

Yeah, I'm including the guys over 6'4. I personally don't believe anyone could have stopped him that night, including Foreman, Lewis, Tyson, Holmes, 60s Ali, or Patterson-murdering Liston.

No disrespect meant to anyone, but I don't care how unpopular that opinion is. Go back and watch that fight again, making to sure catch glimpses of Joe's eyes....

 

Excellent picks McGrain. Could you give me a rundown of how you think Tyson Frazier goes? I go back and forth on it myself. Once I even changed my pick for the match up mid post.

 

I don't agree but Frazier is my favorite fighter so you're certainly not going to get an argument out of me.

 

Better conditioned, yes. Tougher -- than Holyfield? What does that mean? I'd rate them both as a 10/10 there. How is one tougher than the other? Genuinely curious how you can even judge that one.