Joe Frazier. Do You Believe He Could Have Beaten Other ATG s...

Fury more than has the power to stop Frazier. Frazier was a small HW.
But like I said, they will simply outpoint him, no need to go for the KO.
And they won't need to run. Usyk will be too slick for Frazier and Fury way too strong, he will play with the puny Frazier.

Usyk is way more skilled than Ali and Fury is way stronger and also a harder hitter.

Frazier won't kill anything, Fury will annihilate him.

Yes, they will.

By the time he's done, Fury will be top 5 all time at HW, he's already top 10.
And Usyk is top 10 at LHW.

The available footage shows that.

Joe has no advantages, he's a one trick pony. Apart from his left hook, he has nothing. Holyfield wins a punch exchange all day long.

Wlad only needs 1 punch against the puny Frazier. Wlad is the probably the biggest puncher of all time along with Wilder.

 

You see even with my 15% adjustment, I make exceptions.
Liston like Foreman (maybe almost as much) has a big stylistic advantage.
Also the biggest & best fighters, especially sluggers, including a few folks you did not mention, should be strongly favored against Frazier.

You described "Clay" as a marginal favorite.
I would only pick the last Clay (who fought Liston) with those odds.
Peak Ali '66-'67, at least 2/3 chance to win.

I strongly disagree with you about one fighter, Young.
A tricky, low volume & low power fighter is very unlikely to beat a great, relentless swarmer.
Without much size & power, nor throwing a lot, Young would rely on his defense.

And without being big & strong enough to tie Frazier up a lot (& a referee who permits that)...

Nobody is keeping Frazier off of them very much.

Young would at best have maybe a 25% chance.

 

Yes maybe your guess is better than mine

Yes maybe your guess is closer to the truth than mine. I'm just thinking Young is a hell of an awkward fighter, with good skills and also underrated by many.

And yes i meant the young, lightning fast, but slightly green Cassius. I totaly agree with 65-70% favorite for the the 66-67 Version of Ali.

 

Most people never admit things even when they *think* they are wrong.
That is being secure & impressive, a.k.a. manning up!

Young was excellent, it is just that besides Frazier was even better, mainly Frazier had a large stylistic advantage over him.
Without much (for a HW) size, strength, power or volume punching...

He has no likely road to victory.

 

Man, bigger size differences have been overcome, especially when a fighter meets a much bigger, but not quite as good, opponent

 

Okay, so when has that happened? When has two ATGs met with such a large size disparity as this.

 

Nope, they can't outpoint him because Uysk is the kind of fancy boxer that frazier enjoyed beating up.
Again i don't think fury would easily manhandle frazier, because he is not stronger than anything and tell me this: do you think fury's bullying tactics would work against mike Tyson in his prime???

Oooh my mistake! I meant fury would beat him up!!!

We go by what other fighters said, and feats in the ring, and by those measures, no way is fury much stronger or a harder puncher than Ali.

I'm going to add this message to multi-quote and yes, usyk, while not a great cruiserweight, was a generationally great light heavyweight!!

Harder than mike Tyson or sonny liston!!! Damn!!

The footage tells me there is no big difference between the 2 fighters chin and strength wise.

Joe is tougher, better conditioned with more raw power and apart from his left hook, was a pretty good defensive fighter with one of the best slip and duck rates in heavyweight boxing's history, and was fleeter afoot than 90% of the heavyweight champions.

 

I think Tyson is good enough to earn a "maybe" but frazier can also stop him in the latter rounds.

Well, in evander's case, he had the joy of getting punched, hurt and rocked by both Lewis and foreman. And that was a prime lewis and an old man in george foreman.

Even if what you said was true,how would you know Lewis has more power than big george ?

 

I don't believe Frazier would have beaten Ali had Muhammad had more fights under his belt.
I do believe he would always be a stylistic nightmare for him however.

My lifetime encompasses the following reigning champs.
Louis
Charles*
Walcott*
Marciano
Patterson*
Johansson*
Liston
Ali
Spinks*
Holmes
Foreman
Spinks*
Tyson
Holyfield
Douglas*
Moorer*
Wlad
Fury
Plus some alphabet names
Frazier beats those with an asterisk.
The term ATG is of course subjective.

 

Fury ain't no ATG.
Anyway, william Harrison was 58 pounds lighter than Myron and 6 inches shorter, and william gave him a savage beating! Both are in the HOF !!!

 

Willard was washed up, soft and never that good to begin with and certainly not in the class of Tyson or are you debating that? You think Willard vs Dempsey is a comparable match up to Frazier and Fury in terms of ability? You really call Willard an ATG?

Fury was 277lbs in the 3rd fight with Wilder and is about 6ft9. Yes that’s debatable but I’m not sure it’s worth arguing about a few inches when Frazier himself is most likely shorter then advertised.

Anyways, Frazier purposefully gained weight to break into the 200lbs early and gained more he is 5ft11? from memory and 210lbs ish. So Fury is about 50lbs heavier and 10 inches taller with a 85 inch reach, Fraziers reach is about 11 inches shorter. Fury isn’t Ali but I think he’s got better tools for Frazier then Muhammad did.

 

Willard is much stronger than fury and could really bang, (i would say even harder than fury if you go by the feats in the ring and what other fighters said).
Willard is in the hall of fame, whether you like it or not.

You got it backwards, Frazier started boxing as a fat kid who was trying to lose weight, meaning he was already walking around at wellll over 200 pounds. Today, with 12 round fights and steroids, he would be coming in around far more than 210-215 pounds.
Add the fact that fury was not as tall as listed (he is noticibly shorter than David Price, who is 6′8″. So definitely not 6'9, and Frazier was most certainely, a hair under 6 feet according to every measurement ever taken), Smokin Joe would not be 10 inches shorter than fury.
In the end, no, Fury, much slower and not that much stronger than Ali, does not have better tools to deal with Smokin Joe.