How Would A Prime Foreman Vs Ray Mercer Fight Go?

Is this supposed to be revelational?

George Foreman making a comeback for money is hardly a veiled piece of information.
Incidentally, do you think an old Holmes might have been motivated by something else?

And, on Foreman/Holmes, this fight was lined up and supposed to happen in January '99, but fell through due to the agreed money failing to materialize.

(It's perhaps also worth noting, in the spirit of "The unvarnished truth" that Holmes' team wanted no part of Foreman in the 70s.)

Foreman regaining the lineal heavyweight championship, 20 years after losing it to Ali, should also be included in the "unvarnished truth" should it not?

Carefully managed or not, this is an impressive feat.

 

Yeah possibly.

 

The thought of Lewis and Marcer turning down fights with Foreman is hilarious.

 

You’re debating w a guy who is romanticizing a fighter with revised facts. It’s amusing but don’t expect any traction

 

Those Foreman worshippers always blending young and old Fopreman into this incredible killing machine when in reality Foreman flattened two chinny Heavies in Frazier/Norton but was made look like a fool who barely won a rounmd vs a aging Ali without legs..........goes life and death with B level Lyle, hits the deck vs feather fisted Young and finds Jesus for a decade.

Comeback fights nothing but low level fillers , title shot No1 gets used as a Heavybag, more filler, Title shot No2, looses to Tommy Chin who gets dissed in every post but the most powerful; Heavy that has ever lived (Foreman) cannot close the show, Title shot No3, after again used as a Heavybag finally lands the lucky punch in the 11th hoiur against a feeble minded glass chinned Light Heavy..............and then Foreman rather gets stripped before facing ANYBODY worth a lick.

Funny thing , even cannon fodder filler turn his face into a grotesqe looking mellon.............besides Moorer , where he lucked out, he cannot even stop C and D level fighters................but to forum folklore he is the most powerful fighter that has ever lived.

Mercer while nothing special is a bad fight for young or old Foreman, similar size and strengh, equal jab, but has a much better chin and can go 12 hard rounds.................take your pick, in the 70's Foreman runs out of gas quick and is ripe for the taking, in the 80/90's he can go 12 but gets lit up non stop and stayed clear of ANY top 10 prime Punchers.....

 

Nothing I said was a "revised" fact. Before taking a snipe at me from the sidelines like a coward, let's not forget I quoted you challenging you to tell me what I got wrong and you backed off. The two of you post more in Foreman threads than his fans do. If anyone is emotional it's you and NoNeck who probably have a combined 400+ posts insisting Foreman was overrated making sure to reply to nearly every thread with his name in it.

 

Who said they turned fights down Mr Strawman?

Foreman was a risky opponent and Holmes aside I certainly didn’t hear any of Bowe, Lewis and Tyson calling him out either. Maybe George didn’t want those fights either. But he wasn’t bothered about facing Holyfield, Morrison or Moorer so tfor you to imply he’d be terrified of Ray Mercer (you know that guy who got schooled by a geriatric Holmes, tried to bribe a hack like Jesse Ferguson because he was getting whipped, couldn’t beat a professional loser like Marion Wilson and got floored with one punch by Evander Holyfield who teed 20 punches off on George without any effect) is the real hilarious thing.

 

Mercer was no ATG but he was a bit special. Solid all-around skills, real good jab, good power (not on the level of Foreman but well above average for a HW), granite chin, and (when on a good night) a ton of aggression. For a big slugger type, he was a bit of a tailor made nightmare. Unsure how anyone can easily proclaim Foreman would have taken him.

 

Yep, terrified. Exhibit A is Mercer’s fight with Morrison.

 

Yeah because Tommy Morrison was a facsimile of GF that fight would play out exactly the same.

George was so terrified of a guy whose face got turned into pate’ by Bert Cooper that he fled to fight a soft touch like Evander Holyfield instead.

Then again the sort of troll that thinks that heavyweight James Toney knocks out old Foreman probably tells themselves that to get those intrusive GF thoughts from their mind.

 

Conversely, why wouldn’t one be confident in picking a prime Foreman here? Foreman was an elite operator so, what is it that Mercer achieved during his career, which makes this a difficult pick?

I should mention that I do rate Mercer. Even as a late-starter, turning pro, when he was fast approaching his twenty-eighth birthday, he was a solid presence, during the 90s. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t recognize that he had a ceiling, which wasn’t quite high enough for him to be the pick against Foreman.

Part of my admiration for Mercer was his ability to compete, even when he was over-matched, in one way or another. This kind of response to adversity first became apparent when he stepped up to challenge for the WBO title and was significantly behind on points before stopping Damiani. Similarly, he was behind on the cards and being out-boxed by Morrison in his first (and only) defense, before forcing a stoppage for the win.

However, Mercer couldn’t turn the same trick against the Forty-something Holmes and, with him going on to split a pair with Jesse Ferguson, as well as scrape a Draw against Marion Wilson, I think there’s enough there to fairly gauge where Mercer sat within the world class spectrum. This, despite a couple of much-improved, but losing efforts all the same, against Holyfield and Lewis, leaves Mercer just short of making that elite sphere, in my opinion.

In short, Mercer offers little evidence to suggest that he could achieve something against Foreman, which he had failed to carry off, against the opposition he did face - having had ample opportunity to do so.

 

When I say he wasn't that special I mean nothing in his resume jumps out as being particularly amazing, or the eye test for that matter. He was tough as old boots with good fundamentals and decent power, but that was it. The comparisons to guys like Chuvalo or Chisora are not baseless because he does have a lot in common with them.

One thing people always overlook about Foreman is that he absolutely did NOT just swing for the fences from the opening bell looking for a KO. The first round he always used to probe with his jab, apply pressure, and stay at ring center simply observing the opponent and looking for openings. He didn't swing wildly unless he knew for sure his opponent was hurt or someone was dumb enough to stand in front of him to slug it out. I'm fairly certain Foreman would realize Mercer is a strong durable guy and wouldn't just immediately try to knock him out, he'd break him down with his jab, pushing him back to his preferred range, hitting him with body shots, smothering Mercer's punches, etc. It would be a relatively easy fight as long as he didn't burn through his gas tank being overly anxious.

 

Toney knocking out old Foreman is something you'd expect to hear from a casual in a bar or a moron in a YouTube comments section. Even the general forum and the most die hard modernists wouldn't say something this stupid. I chuckle every time I'm reminded of that post.

 

Pretty much sums up No Necks agenda doesn’t it?

Apart from a very occasional stumble once or twice, comeback Foreman didn’t come close to being stopped, dropped or even hurt. But an obese 5’9 middleweight would turn the trick despite not even being a huge puncher in his proper weight class. It’s laughable and shows what a plank that guy is lol

 

You hit the nail on the head. I think it's always important, if the discussion is about h2h matchups, to look at a fighter's record to see what their "ceiling" is based on how they did against a certain "level" of fighter. If someone is consistently struggling with B or C level competition, it would be safe to assume that they definitely aren't A level. As you said, Mercer tried to rise to the occasion even when he was out of his element and certainly had heart and determination, but he had limits and we more or less saw what he was capable of.

These are my stats if anyone's curious:


70's George Foreman 6'3.5, 80' reach, 225 lbs

Power: 10
Defense: 5
Hand speed: 4
Chin: 9
Stamina: 6
Foot speed: 7
Combination punching: 5
Punch variety: 7
Physical strength: 9
Technique: 7
Ring IQ: 3
Accuracy: 7
Heart: 7

Overall rating: 6.6


Ray Mercer 6'1, 77' reach, 224 lbs

Power: 7
Defense: 4
Hand speed: 5
Chin: 9
Stamina: 7
Foot speed: 4
Combination punching: 7
Punch variety: 6
Physical strength: 8
Technique: 6
Ring IQ: 5
Accuracy: 5
Heart: 7

Overall: 6.2