Is George Foreman the most overrated fighter in history?

Hi Buddy.
Appreciate your response, for what it's worth I got the main point, and totally agree, and concede that the KD would generally come later in a fight, mind you, from memory the 1st KD against Lyle was in the 2nd, that's by the by, and just for future reference, my intention was not to criticize Foreman ( not suggesting you were saying that ) it was to correct a error by the poster, as I have been on many a occasion, and fully on board with your last assertion, so all good.
stay safe amigo. chat soon.

 

Isn't perspective a funny old game, back in the late 80's and early 90's, 250lb was considered grossly obese, almost on par with a blue whale and 40 years of age was pensioner material. In today's world 250lb is considered anorexic and 40 is just finishing puberty.

What has changed? For me it's got to be all these "vitamins & minerals" as I don't think diet is that much more advanced.

 

His power was freakish but he had no defense.

 

It's pretty simple, guys are just getting extremely fat and/or overly muscular with too much emphasis on weights. Instead of getting into a good shape and a lower weight that balances and maximizes strength, speed, and stamina, they'd rather just take PEDS as a shortcut so they can remain gigantic and have the endurance to throw lots of punches.

The narrative is to pretend like everyone on average is simply getting larger due to "evolution" and while it's true some people on average in some countries are getting taller and heavier than a few decades ago, part of this is lifestyle and diet. Heavyweights have become notoriously lazy and just let themselves go with sagging chests, flabs, big bellies, etc. Doesn't have jack **** to do with "evolution", they just lack discipline and want an easy fix so they can just focus on power and outlasting the other guy. Bermaine Stiverne, Ruiz, and Tyson Fury are perfect examples of the fat variety. In fact, Stiverne coach is on record saying he had been practically begging and pleading with him to lose weight and it fell on deaf ears. Joshua would be the bulky type who seems to be more worried about looking good and maintaining an amazing physique than mastering his craft and having the right fast twitch muscles and cardio to fight like a traditional boxer.

I 100% agree with you that 250 used to be considered obese even by modern HW standards. Nowadays you pretty much expect it and if a boxer is actually in good shape at 220+ people scoff and say he's too small and expect him to just get run over (which was the expectations people had for Wilder, Usyk, etc). Unless someone is fairly tall and has the right genes, it's suspicious for them to be 250+ "naturally" while maintaining explosiveness, speed, and strength. Especially if they're a huge fat guy like Miller who can throw dozens and dozens of punches even in the 12th round.

 

7.00 Foreman slips under a Norton hook.
7.04 Foreman parries a jab and then slips under a hook - again.
7.10 Foreman parries down a jab to the body.
7.14 Foreman uses upper body movement to evade a jab.
7.19 Foreman parries a jab firmly enough for it to be heard clearly.
7.39 Foreman smothers any chance of a Norton attack in close.
7.50 Foreman throws a jab then leans back turning taking some sting out of a left hook. Three seconds later he ducks under a left hook yet again.
8.15 Foreman rubber necks a left hook showing excellent anticipation and reflexes yet again.
8.20 Foreman, on the attack, slips a jab.
9.20 Foreman effortlessly parries away a Norton jab.
10.36 Foreman parries away another jab.
10.52 Foreman smothers an up jab almost before it had begun.
10.55 Foreman ducks under yet another left hook.
11.29 Foreman knocks down another Norton jab.

To say peak George Foreman "had no defense" doesn't really cut it. These are the things he is regularly up against however. This was peak Ken Norton and he could barely land any left hooks at all, his favorite punch. His jab, a good one, also only enjoyed fleeting success as Foreman parried a great many of them. For an aggressive puncher his defense was quite serviceable.

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You're right I'm wrong! I was only basing it on the Evander Holyfield fight plus I didn't do my homework lol. I stand corrected. Cheers to you sir!!!

 

Hey all good Mike, you're a good'un!!!!

Don't get me wrong, he's sure no defensive wizard but it's serviceable within his given strengths and style.

 

Very well-addressed point!

 

Cheers!!!!

 

The commentator in that video during and after round one...

"A fairly even round."

 

Foreman was much older when he fought Holyfield. Also, I think Norton knew he had a durability issue. Holyfield, being on the opposite end there and knowing it, could take more chances to land shots against a big hitter.

That said, successfully defending against Norton is impressive on its own. He was a great fighter.

 

Overrated? Nah.

 

Nice breakdown and very affording time stamping. Foreman was a very cool customer in that fight, methodical and patient, really at the top of his game.

I can imagine anyone seeing that fight at the time not holding holding a lot of confidence in Ali’s chances vs George.

As confident and self believing as Ali was, surely even he had to take pause and think “What monster is this?”

Some might say Ali enjoyed a bit of luck in some instances during his career - I’d say it was pretty damn unlucky to have had to roll two beasts like Liston and Foreman 10 years apart.

You might expect at least 20 years to pass by for another such beast to come along - but Ali had to cop two over his separate careers - and many expected Ali to fall quickly in both instances.

Fully informed by his complete resume, hard to bet against him. Almost a supernatural feature to the man.

 

Yeah MM, @JohnThomas1 didn’t muck about, did he?

He’s a good and proper historian you know, like me and @swagdelfadeel.

All self-appointed of course (come join us, no sign up fees) and we multilaterally agree that Cleveland, Cleaver, Cleve, The Big Cat, Williams is the greatest H2H Heavyweight.

Feel free to quote us on that or simply sign up and quote your own good self.

 

Of course, I am completely wrong.
Ever have something you know well, even watched many times, slip your mind entirely?
And those were the only times he was floored merely by the force of the punches, not exhaustion.
Duh, I was a blithering idiot!