Is George Foreman the most overrated fighter in history?

Golly gee i enjoy your posts. Always so measured and sensible while often slipping onto points that really hit home and allow the mind to run free.

The line questioning the likelihood two beasts like Liston and Foreman standing in Ali's path just 10 years apart put so much into perspective and you've bounced off that straight to one of the big reasons Ali, is, well, Ali and so immensely ranked.

His self belief and confidence is, quite frankly, ****ing ABSURD. He was at ringside watching Foreman breeze thru and absolutely destroy someone he had gone life and death with at that career stage. On top of this he'd also made Joe Frazier look like a clubfighter and not even a glorified one.

Ali signs to fight Foreman and treats him like he's nothing all the way from the lead up to the electrifying finishing combination. It's like he completely knew all along. Even when things started to look good for him he didn't rush, panic or try to get it done fast he just cruised along nonchalantly at his own patient pace until his chance to finish came along.

I completely agree there was an almost supernatural feature to the man. He slayed the boogiemen everyone else could do nothing about.

 

Bravo to you and @Pugguy for articulating this.

Imagine the size of the minerals on Ali to taunt a Foreman who is pounding wrecking balls off his torso with ‘Don’t let me down, George … they told me you could hit hard.’

 

It's bloody insane isn't it! Maybe he was a little bit crazy as well

Sonny certainly thought so.

 

Foreman wasn't exactly Ali when it came to defense, but he wasn't Riddick Bowe either. Frazier also had a very tough time connecting on Foreman as well.

 

Absolutely. Foreman framed Norton less and was quite orthodox in his defense against Norton and i felt it shows some fundamentals (vs personal styles) better.

 

Cheers brah. The scorn Ali showed during the pre-fight face off was something else. Foreman looked like his head was going to explode from anger as Ali dressed him down. Ali had George well and truly primed to blast his a** off, as Ali himself so aptly termed it. The full quote was "I just let George blast his a** off and prayed he'd keep throwin'." Who'd pray for that? Lol. Of course, as the fight progressed, we came to understand the method to Ali's "madness", a method we still recommend no one else try at home.

 

And there was me thinking I'd already acquired and mastered the 'secret cyber handshake' for that club.

 

Thanks. You're right about the stones on Ali. He should've used a wheelbarrow during his ring walk to conserve energy.

Funny, early in his career, George was asked about his prospects against Ali. This was a jovial, young and fresh George. He replied that while he was confident that he could knock Ali out, he didn't think he could ever stop Ali talking, and envisaged that even while on the canvas, Ali would still be jabber jawing at him. The press in attendance all laughed along with George. Good joke and, since we're talking Ali, perhaps not an impossibility if it had come down to that.

 

Yes Ali was like the superman of boxing. Physically he was supremely quick but for me it was his death defying powers of recovery and his ability to absorb punishment that impressed me most.
And mentally he just had that absolute self belief that you mentioned. Against those two killers Foreman and Liston it appeared to simply be crazy bravado…but we now all know better.

Funnily enough, he wasn’t the most “textbook” of boxers stylistically…his hands were too low, he didn’t have the widest range of punches yada yada yada. How on earth could he defeat Foreman simply using his usual bag of tricks and a big mouth?? But beat him he did! The only man to ever stop him fgs!
Yep the Superman of his era.

And like the original Superman, Ali had his own version of Kryptonite…Ken Norton.
But Ali being Ali, he still managed to conquer his kryptonite twice. Allegedly…

 

So, there's a secret cyber handshake for this club, is there? Hmm! News to me. This must be like the Freemasons and their 3 degrees. I must still be at the Apprentice, limited knowledge, probationary level. I wondered why Swag told me to address him as Master.

In all seriousness, in the real world, my paternal great grandfather and father-in-law were Freemasons. Lots of interesting, secret squirrel stuff going on there.

 

A good sort, in my experience.

Incidentally, I have heard unconfirmed mention that Joseph Barbera and William Hanna (the creators of Secret Squirrel) were Freemasons...

 

It was really the equivalent of a gladiator being stuck in an arena with a bear and the gladiator is deliberately provoking the bear hoping it stays angry. On paper, this sounds absolutely insane and you'd think the guy had a death wish.

Ali himself explained in an interview: That he would make his opponents angrier and angrier so that they could become sloppy and try to focus only on knocking him out, rather than trying to outbox him. Being so tense also reduces your stamina and weakens your timing/speed. So really in a roundabout (and incredibly risky) way, his plan was perfect because as you and John pointed out Foreman was actually a decent boxer with good reflexes and ring IQ when he was calm. By enraging him Ali removed several of his opponent's best traits leaving only the raw power. Despite all that, it was still quite the difficult nail biting affair, but Ali's nerves of steel and brilliant counter punching got him the W.

 

Norton wouldn't have been his kryptonite in the 60's tho. Futch admitted as much after their first fight.

Swag posted a great article on it and from memory Futch stated Norton wouldn't even beat the post exile version from 2 or so years earleir let alone the 60's speedster.

 

I have often seen posters express an idea along the lines of: "If Foreman had fought [insert any historical heavyweight contender here] like he did Ali in Zaire, then Foreman would lose."

I find this to be an absurd viewpoint; not least because it entirely removes the 'Ali Factor' from the equation. The opposite is more likely, in that no-one, other than Ali, could have pulled off that strategy and walked away the winner against Foreman, in Zaire.

There are - maybe - a select handful of other Heavyweights in history, who might have been able to turn the tables on a Foreman in his pomp. But it wouldn't be a bet I'd take.