If Muhammad Ali had retired after Manila?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ETM, Dec 30, 2022.


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  1. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Would your ranking of him as an alltime great heavyweight be different from where it is now?

    Regardless of where you have him #1 or #3 or # 10 would not having that last segment of his career alter your rank of him? For better or worse.

    He wouldn't be a 3 time heavyweight champion but we also wouldn't have seen those subpar performances from 1976-81. No loss to Leon, no dubious decisions, no shamlessly ducking Ken Norton for 2 years 76-78.
    My own view is Ali didn't need any of that segment of his career. After Manila his legacy was intact. I have #1 all time or 1a depending on the day with only Joe Louis in the same zip code.
     
    ETM, Dec 30, 2022
    ETM, Dec 30, 2022
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  2. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    His detractors would have infinitely less ammunition.
     
    ThatOne, Dec 30, 2022
    ThatOne, Dec 30, 2022
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  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    His chin was even more proven against Shavers, outside of that I don't think his close and controversial wins against the good opponents he faced add much. Certainly not losing to a guy with only eight pro fights.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
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  4. PittSteel

    PittSteel Member Full Member

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    I think his post manila career was a net negative for Muhammad's legacy. Either way he is the #1 HW of all time for me.
     
    PittSteel, Dec 30, 2022
    PittSteel, Dec 30, 2022
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  5. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I've always felt Ali's win over Shavers was underrated. Had it never happened, people would've thought he was way to far gone to take punishment like that from a puncher of Shavers' caliber.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 30, 2022
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 30, 2022
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  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In my mind,Manila cemented Muhammad's legacy as the number one heavy of all time. Nothing after it makes one iota of difference in my opinion.
     
    Stevie G, Dec 30, 2022
    Stevie G, Dec 30, 2022
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  7. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Agree, Swag. They would have said, Shavers too powerful for that version of Ali.
    How the hell he did it, At that point in his life, I'll never know.
     
    Fergy, Dec 30, 2022
    Fergy, Dec 30, 2022
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  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali's indomitable will. That's all it could have been at that point in his career.
     
    Stevie G, Dec 30, 2022
    Stevie G, Dec 30, 2022
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  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Had to be Stevie.
    To keep going round after round at that age, and Shavers sledgehammer shots bouncing off his skull!
     
    Fergy, Dec 30, 2022
    Fergy, Dec 30, 2022
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  10. mirexxa

    mirexxa Heavyweight Champ Full Member

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    Agree with this. The fact that he took hellacious shots from the hardest puncher ever while being miles past his best speaks volumes
     
    mirexxa, Dec 30, 2022
    mirexxa, Dec 30, 2022
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  11. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Shavers said Ali was the best fighter he was in the ring with and he faced a faded version.
     
    ThatOne, Dec 30, 2022
    ThatOne, Dec 30, 2022
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  12. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well more than likely Ali would still be around and would have not been so mentally and physically damaged . Pacheco said the Spinks fights took him right to the edge and the Holmes fight pushed him over the brink. Legacy wise? no difference really.
     
    Reinhardt, Dec 30, 2022
    Reinhardt, Dec 30, 2022
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yep. Funny fact is that he had been KO'd by old Jimmy Ellis in sparring before the fight.
     
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
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  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Those testimonies are always a bit dicey, though. Holmes took Shavers to school shortly afterwards and it's hard to see how that Holmes wasn't better than the old Ali.
     
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2022
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  15. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hero worship. Ali did not look as good against Shavers as some others who beat him. Their fight was close and I think Shavers was robbed. Some other Shavers fights that went to the bell weren't close at all.
     
    Barrf, Dec 30, 2022
    Barrf, Dec 30, 2022
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