Joe Louis vs. Harry Greb

We sometimes forget just how Human these Men are... GOD Bless everyone of them, especially those that the BUSINESS of Boxing Stole from.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39...hciDvvsUepZPzKzGEPE9dpQ0VVHn43Zgg&oe=63B7F491

 

You didn't overstep anything friend. I do not claim to be some sort of boxing historian--I leave that to guys like Pugguy and Swag who are experts on the h2h goat Cleveland Williams.

I have read a few descriptions of Greb and that was simply the impression I got, that he applied a lot of pressure with a wild shots from multiple angles. I thought that was the whole point of his nick name "the Pittsburgh windmill"...? I could be wrong. I had read the information about his win over Tunney and he seemed like a very aggressive boxer on the front foot.

Whether he was a pressure fighter or not, the context of my post was that my opposition was claiming Greb may have success since Billy Conn outboxed Louis for a bit before the KO. My main point was that this is very flawed reasoning since there is nothing I read about Greb getting on his toes, dancing, and using lateral movement to circle around opponents the way Conn did to Louis. Not only that, Conn lost, so it's a very flawed approach to extrapolate from Conn to give Greb a chance. I hope that makes sense.

By all means if you want to offer your 2 cents in this matchup or shed more light on Greb's style and how it clashed with Louis', go ahead.

 

I'd heavily favour Louis over Greb, too. I'm not sure I'd predict a stoppage in 2 mins as you have, but its plausible, and in the main I see the match up similar to you.

You have made a couple of comments that make me think you may slightly misjudge and/or underestimate Greb though.

Whilst he was always moving and throwing in combinations, rather than planting his feet and sitting down on his shots, I dont think its accurate to describe him as featherfisted (apologies if I have you confused with another poster - though I do agree its extremely unlikely he would hurt Louis), read up on the damage he inflicted on the much bigger Tunney in their first fight. He wasnt a concussive puncher, but featherfisted fighters dont inflict that kind of extreme damage.

He also most certainly utilised lateral movement and whilst it's true he was nicknamed the windmill, I think that's representative of his unrelenting volume of punches, rather than him being an unskilled, wild puncher.

Mike sounds better read on Grebs style than I, so I'll leave him to expand. I'll just add:

1) On Rummys top 25 boxers by decade thread, I collated all fights contested by the contenders in each decade, to ensure no 1 fight contributed to a fighters ranking in more than the decade it occured in. Greb still came no. 1, for me, in both the 1910's and 1920's. The depth of his win resume is insane. It's not only the deepest in boxing history, but the deepest by quite a margin.
2) We have no film of Greb, but we do have film of Tunney and Loughran. Watching them, its difficult to imagine a featherfisted, wild, MW beating them. Clearly Greb had more to him than that.

Again, completely with you that Louis should be heavily favoured to beat Greb, probably by KO and quite possibly early.

 

Fair enough, but you yourself just wrote that he punched at a high volume. Even if he doesn't set his feet in one spot for very long, the facts of the matter are that the more you punch the more opportunities you give your opponent even if you're very fast. He only needs to make one mistake for a millisecond and Louis can time him.

Louis feet weren't very fast, but his hands certainly were. He had a sharp jab and quick combinations ready to fire at any moment like a loaded gun. Louis was very patient and would be pressuring Greb immediately.

 

Yeah, agree with all that.

 

Louis.

Apart from the size and strength advantage, he also possessed one of boxing's great jabs, which seems like it was problematic for Greb judging by the Tunney matches.

Greb might make a fight of it for a while by exploiting Louis' slow feet and turning him. Doubt he could do it the whole night before getting caved in though.

 

Thanks GCC. When it comes to the Big Cat, we do know of what we speak and, sometimes, it is with tongue planted firmly in cheek. There goes my gift for rhyme again - I'm not even trying, it just happens. It's insane.

 

It is obvious you are the hater here. Saying GGG had footwork like Louis. Might you have examples of who said that, or it this just a thought in you twisted mind?


No, Joe Louis does not blow Greb out of the water. You don't know who Greb moved. You don't know a thing about how had he was to hit. Here is how you back yourself up with quotes and examples.

Now judging on film how Louis struggled with movers such as Conn, it's plausible that Greb could do the same. Face it son, you a hater and IMO not a very good one.

Every point that ruffles you feathers you go immediately to a fighter you think the other poster likes, and wrongly bad information during the process.

This is a competitive fight based on the history of the two fighters. I picked Louis by the way.

 

Coming back with that ? Really? I provided example and quotes. You on the other had having nothing to say, or counter. I don't find you among the better posters here. Now you have resorted to name calling because you have been checkmated. I won't go low into your hole.
Have fun with the same calling.

>>Mendoza wrote:

Louis has slow shuffling feet. They did not call him shuffling Joe Louis for nothing! It wasn't a compliment. Louis's ability to track down faster fighters the Conn, Walcott, and to and to extent Godoy who was pretty mobile are there on film to see and Louis had the reach in all cases. So Louis foot speed and technique were lacking.

Defensively on film he shows low left guard and next to no head movement. He is one to jabs and right hands. His offense was his defense!

If I were to score best boxers he faced in Schmeling, Conn, Walcott and Charles, Louis is way down on points, mostly because of his footwork and defense. Yes score them yourself. You will see its true.



You aren't listening to me, you asked me why Louis defense and footwork was bad, and I told you why and to watch and score the fights where he was behind on the scorecards if you add them all up. Did you do that?

Then you comeback with his offenses ( not defense ) and counter punching which has noting to do with defense and was not featured at ALL vs Schmeling, Conn, Walcott and Charles. What did Blackburn says about his defense which is very poor in the above fights? I'll read it. His footwork is slow and shuffling. Hence the nickname shuffling Joe.

Offensively Louis had a fine jab, and combinations but we are not talking about offense.

 

From what I've read of ATG Greb (and seriously, I don't consider myself an historian's shoelace (had to "clean up" the more commonly used expression), he could well bedazzle Joe for a certain number of rounds. But, then again, Louis just might let him go for a bit, while thinking "Do what you have to do, I'll check you out and I won't be wasting any energy in the meantime aside from just pumping the jab". After a sufficient study for say, 3-4 rounds, likely behind on the cards, Joe will begin firing well considered power shots atop the jab. I think he would incrementally break Harry down, securing a KO or stoppage before the fight hits the 10th rd mark.

Would be interesting to hear Greb expert @klompton2 weigh in with his opinion on this match up - if he hasn't done so in previous threads.

 

I agree, I'm a big Greb fan and think there's a good argument he could be the best pound for pound ever but he's going to come to Joe Louis? I believe it will be thrilling while it lasts until Joe drops him with a hook. And Greb won't survive after he rises, Joe Louis was an assassin when he had a man hurt.

 

Louis said in his owns words that he didn't like to be crowded. Greb could crowd people. I see no evidence in the men he fought that could move and had defense that Louis wins early, or ever mid range. If the fight is 10 or 12 rounds, things get interesting

 

It's possible that Greb could win a decision, I imagine him as faster than Conn with both hands & feet, and he was certainly much more elusive & unorthodox. Greb was so incredibly great that, if anyone his size could beat Louis, it would be him.

But I think Louis KO's him.

 

Louis could move and he did have defence.

Watch Louis vs Max Baer.

No fighter likes to be crowded.

Even so, awkward Godoy made it very up and close and personal in his rematch with Joe - you’ll never see more pristine, short, accurate and powerful punching as applied by Joe to turn Arturo’s face into a mis-shaped, bloody mess.

Joe made a habit of performing major cosmetic surgery in many of his fights.

 

No! I have actually never heard of any sparring match that involved Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey. What are you speaking of?