Joe Louis vs. Harry Greb

Seems like the point I was trying to make landed effectively then ;-)

p.s, yes, I'm a Louis fan. I'm a bigger fan of Greb, though, who i rank #2 pfp all time (Louis isnt my #1, btw).

 

good, valid points.

 

"Love it!"

 

Honesty, integrity, fairness, consistency, genuinity, humility, self awareness......you just didn't get those chips did you. On the other hand deceitfulness, inability to learn, inability to admit, obtuseness, obnoxiousness and so so much more are just there in spades.

Since you, for some reason, were allowed back in here all you have done is run riot on facts, treat other posters like they are idiots, refuse to concede numerous factual points, stirred people up and basically just made a fool of yourself as you have in every other stint and in every other alt.

SURPRISE!!!!!

Flavor of the week per your current hit list is poor Joe Louis. All sorts of deceit and bias thrust forward as you test the current waters to see if anyone is silly enough or biased enough to swallow your eternal rubbish.

The winner of Louis - Godoy is most certainly not "up to debate". The fight has forever been accepted as a Joe Louis victory and only an idiot would proclaim anything other.

It's all there on film. Eye of the ring, which you are quick to pull out when it suits your shocking bias does not have a single card in favor of Godoy. The cards aren't even close.

You've deceitfully cut and pasted only the stuff that suits your bias from boxrec and edited the rest out. Surprise, surprise, surprise as Pink Floyd once said.

Let's have a peek at some of the omitted shall we -

• The New York Times reported: "Louis won sloppily against a bruising, mauling and rushing fighter who knew no fear or retreat." Many in the crowd booed the decision, but the Times called the verdict "eminently fair." Its reporter scored the fight 10-5 for Louis and stated that other reporters had a similar score.
• The Associated Press scored the fight 10-5 for Louis. They gave the champion the last five rounds.
• The International News Service scored the fight 9-6-1 for Louis.

Well my oh my that certainly looks a bit different now doesn't it. The verdict was "eminently fair". The AP scored it a resounding 10-5 and the International News Service virtually mirrors that. The AP gives the fast finishing Louis the last 5 rounds. Many cards agree and those that don't give Louis 4 of the last 5.

Now the forum is all about digging deep and discussing the merits of all things boxing. It's all about taking a deeper look at how we rate them and how we think they stand.

Every man and their dog however can recognise deep seated bias and continual hit pieces, some of them thrust forth time and time again by the same person years apart and when they are factually destroyed they just crop up again some years later as if nothing had ever happened.

But you keep on doing you and no doubt we will be rid of this rot for good.

 

I know you were talking about the first fight - I addressed the first fight. And I addressed the second fight, which is obviously relevant also.

Louis didn’t just get the job done in the rematch. He looked terrific in the process.

So, in the first fight, Godoy was pushing Joe around in the clinches (as you say), committing fouls (as I say and correctly so) but really, it was ultimately Louis’ ref Donovan controlling the action (as you say)??

Godoy provided as an awkward customer first time around - naturally, Louis didn’t “look” as good as he did in other fights in terms of aesthetics but he was still more than sufficiently applied in practical terms.

Some observers over react when a generally dominant Champ is less than perfect in a given performance even though said Champ has still clearly won the fight.

This wasn’t a turn of the century ref/judges in there like a crooked Greggains who might’ve awarded Godoy for his moments of ineffectual aggression while he was getting belted about the head otherwise.

Fortunately, refereeing and judgement criteria had progressed and Louis was awarded the decision he clearly deserved.

Jeffries struggled mightily before KO’ing Jim Corbett in the 23rd round.

Should we rubber stamp Jim also as having great difficulties with reasonably mobile but old, past their best, inactive, light hitting, sub 200 lb’rs?

So Louis beat swarmers, boxers, sluggers, express movers, all types, etc. over his protracted and all conquering reign but displayed glaring weaknesses all the while?

We should all have such weaknesses and Achilles heels.

 

Greb is in for a chance...But he was 5'8" & the heaviest weight I can find for him on boxrec was fighting at 173, usually ~ 165.
Who was as small overall as Greb that you are referring to?
Nobody who beat Louis, of which there are only 3...
Even Billy Conn was somewhat taller.

 

Brilliant post

 

Another excellent post

 

I wouldn't give Greb much of a chance against a prime Louis.

I dont think anyone Greb's size ever gave a prime Louis problems.

Because Conn weighed 174lbs in the 1st Louis fight, and Greb weighed similar at his heaviest, Mendoza is trying to claim this is an indicator Louis would struggle with Greb. I disagree, both with that, and that Greb was the same size as Conn. At their respective bests, Greb was a MW and Conn a LHW.

 

Conn weighted 168 against Louis was in the lead and staggered him. After 12 rounds cutting Louis eye and nose. That's right if the fight was 12 rounds as today, we have a new champion who weighed in as a super middle weight! Think about it...but you won't. Don't take my word for it watch the films of check the score cards. Or see Joe Louis words.

You are free to underestimate Harry Greb . You don't know that much about the man, how he did at heavyweight ( beat the same guys Dempsey did and had an easier time if your want more facts ) or his very hard to hit moving style and toughness. That right he was more durable than Conn.

 

Conn was announced as 174lbs for Louis 1. I've read reports he weighed differently, but none at 168lbs. Its immaterial to your point anyway, he was clearly substantially bigger than Greb. Iran Barkleys heaviest weight is higher than Lennox Lewis lightest, doesn't stop Lewis being clearly the substantially bigger fighter. Admittedly that's an exaggerated example to demonstrate the concept - Conn, who was ko'd 2 out of 2 by Louis, was clearly bigger than Greb.

What the hell do you know about my knowledge of Greb's career? I've read books on him, have carried out extensive research into his career and have spreadsheets recording details of every fight he contested. Imo, he has not only the deepest win resume in boxing, but the deepest by quite a margin.

Check out page 3 of Rummys sticky top 25 boxers in each decade thread. You'll see I rank Greb #1 in both the 1910's and 1920's. I dont rank Louis at 1 in any decade.

I assure you that the reason for the different positions we've adopted on a Louis vs Greb fight, is not because I dont know as much about Greb as you or dont rate him as highly as you. It's because you, for some bizarre reason I cant fathom, have a blinkered anti Louis agenda.

 

Louis has great timing vs a slow moving target. Just like a baseball player might like a slow curve ball, but do poorly on a fast ball. Make any sense? Vs . a guy who can move Louis clearly struggles, and misses a lot...on film. His timing is not so good here. Why? Add 2 and two here and when you are done you see that Greb has a chance. That is what I am saying. Louis via SD is my pick for this fantasy fight, and I leave some room for Greb to take the decision.

 

I am quoting accurate sources. If it makes you fell better, you are free the add a few pounds on Conn so he is above the super middle weight limit. I see it as Louis was not good vs. smaller men this size and lacked the defense, footwork and perhaps was slow to adapt in the first fight between men.

Lennox Lewis would destroy Conn and do much better than Louis did. I don't think having what you call and " agenda " changes the facts, which I'm sorry to say upset you. I am addicted to the facts. The facts are that Conn was in the lead, staggered Louis, and cut him over the eye and on the nose through 12 rounds. Don't take my words for it Greg read and watch the films.