Trust me, you're not upsetting to me. My thoughts on your posts in this thread have been summarised numerous times within it, both by me and multiple other posters.
Rubbish. Pastor moved further faster than any Louis opponent, Louis thrashed him twice. What you mean is, he struggled against Joe Walcott, who was one of the twenty or thrity greatest heavies in history. Marciano struggled with him, Charles struggled with him, everyone struggled with him when he was on. As for timing being more difficult against better moving opponents - yes. That is universally true of literally every fighter ever to have lived. What do you mean "accurate sources". Accurate sources on Conn's weight being 168lbs? Accurate means pinpoint, it means you would be correct. Is that what you meant to say? Share the sources that have Billy Conn weighin in at 168lbs versus Joe Louis for me.
I was going to ask you to cite your sources and explain why you think they're more accurate than the official weight given for Conn. I see McGrain has already requested same. Fighters strategize and pace themselves to fight in deference to the PRESET limit. Anybody who understands boxing knows this. You writing as if you're ignorant of this simple fact. Have you ever mused similarly on the first Jeffries vs Corbett fight? That's right, over 12 rounds Big Jim loses. Let's give him another 3 rounds to make it 15. We can flex for the big fella. Dayum! Big Jim still loses. Let's give him another 5 rounds at a stretch for an even 20 rounds? Surely, that should be enough for Jim to finally have his nose in front. Oh no, the Boilermaker still loses. That's right, still loses.
Rubbish? Louis did not look good in the first fight with Pastor. Yes he struggled with Godoy and Conn, two other quick movers in boxing. And I say he was lucky to win in the first fight with Walcott ( you are free to disagree, the evidence is there ) and was well behind in the re-match. These are four good movers. Do you actually watch boxing, score the round and study the score cards? Maybe not as I do. I am bringing forth video, audio, and factual analysis. Is this the mark of a hater? I think not. Anyway I think he struggled with Greb too because he is very tough, a hard to time, and fast! That's my opinion and yours is? Af for Conn's weight in the first fight this link will add the value you are looking for. [url]https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Joe_Louis_vs._Billy_Conn_(1st_meeting)[/url] Charles blew his doors off. I under stand he was older then, but Louis was not done winning significant matches after the loss.
Absolutely rubbish, he lost 3 rounds at the absolute worse GODOY was a "quick mover"? This is all getting very, very silly. I actually knew you would link this, I knew it almost to the tune of 100%. Firstly, that doesn't say Billy Conn weighs in at 168lbs, which was your claim. Really not very "accurate" at all as a source, is it? It says that "it has been reported" that Conn weighed in at 169lbs. And you know what? There is actualy some interesting bits and bobs surrounding that rumour - suffice to say that I knew you knew nothing about them, and would link to Boxrec...which I suppose is marginally better than copying and pasting it.
Mendoza has a point in saying, that Louis carried his left too low. I think we forgot very quickly, that Schmeling's whole gameplan was build around that low left hand, which was countered with his right. That low left hand led to Schmeling KO'ing him.
Many fighters carried their left low until the boxing gloves got heavier. No offence to you, but it's like someone who is new to weather saying you should take an umbrella when it's raining. This is because low hands were used to protect against body punches. Louis didn't have a great mobile guard, and some fighters of this era did, but he had one that was absolutely typical, technically, for his era (the 30s) and one that would have been taught as correct in boxing gyms. And on balance, it probably was correct for the equipment of the era.
I think you are right that Conn was ~ an actual 168 lbs. against Louis. At least that is what I have read. But I look forward to hearing the sources you have. However given his height & reach, he was clearly bigger overall than Greb-over 4" taller. Looking at Greb & seeing he was lean without substantial (but decent) upper body mass, & knowing about his foot speed, he must have been like other squat, high volume swarmers-Armstrong, Frazier, Godoy, Marciano: proportionately more LOWER body muscle mass. I think you are too hard on Louis. Yes you can say he "struggled" with certain types. Ali was similar-they were best against big sluggers, could outbox other boxer types-but against swarmers & fast smaller movers, might have relative difficulty. EDIT: And against Walcott & especially Charles, he was past his best. He had a fairly grueling career-boxed a good deal of exhibitions during WW2, but being off for years does not help...And unlike Walcott, was not near or at his peak in his mid-late 30's. All at their prime, I do not think either wins-or gets as close as Jersey Joe in their first, often disputed, decision. However, Ali & Louis...these are (at least relative to their era) two of the best HWs EVER. Even some B-Ball players sometimes guarded Michael Jordan & limited his output-or outplayed him some games. Nobody is really a God: so go against the tippy-top best in the world, occasionally even a great dandidate for "GOAT" will have trouble. If it was a 12 round fight...Conn may well have been champion. But maybe not: Louis might have been able to step it up earlier. I mean he did so even thou he was (foolishly) dehyrdated because he wanted to be under 200 lbs. so folks would not say he beat up a little guy lol! Yes Lewis would be even more likely to take out Conn. The size & power discrepancy is just much too great.
NOPE! Louis' flaw was not returning his left to the guard position after jabbing,This was corrected in between the Schmeling fights.
Years ago when I pointed out that ,had the Johnson v Willard fight been over 20 rds the referee would have given the fight to Johnson,and the referee stated this.This same poster said, no Willard would have begun forcing the fight a lot earlier.So which is it?
Conn was six feet one and a half inches tall with a 72 inch reach. Greb five feet eight inches tall but ,at seventy one and ahalf ,his reach was only a half inch shorter than Conn's. I'd pick Conn to outpoint Greb, and I have the highest regard for Harry.
I get the feeling Greb wouldn't try crowding Louis much. I think he would employ a hyper-moving battle plan, in & out and tying up and hitting with the free hand whenever close enough. I think Greb was smart & would try his best to stay at least mid-range, not letting Joe dig to the body enough to slow him up, or at least attempting to lol. Like Louis said 'they can run but they can't hide', I see this as being the case here.
People tend to see the low-carried left as somehow inferior to a higher guard, but I agree there was intent & purpose, Louis certainly wasn't doing something wrong. Obviously, the problem Joe had that Schmelling exploited, was that he brought his left back low immediately after a punch. It wasn't a question of where he kept his left in a normal fighting stance.
Yes, there are many ways in which he could have ditched the right, and it was a counterpunch that taxed him anyway.