Why did Sugar Ray Leonard have so few fights?

Leonard wouldnt have done well anyways. Styles

Think what a prime Camacho with twice his speed, would have done to him.

ditto with Norris, Jones, Nunn, Mayweather

Speed and footwork causes him headaches. Stick to flat footed Duran, ranzany, Shields, Kalule, etc., fighters he CAN outmanuver

 

40 fight career IS NORMAL the last 40 years, so 3 losses is not just an acceptable norm, it's pretty darn good and Equal, Better or Greater than damn near ANY other 30 - 50 Fights greats.

I mean I would like them all to have eitherside of a 100 Fights over eitherside of 15 year Careers... I believe then we would have a very different Boxing History... but 2 things.

1) That will Never, Ever happen again
2) So whats the diff between 40 fights with 3 losses compared to ANY Other Greats & TOP Fighters since the 1980s???

 

If you listen to Arum before the Mugabi fight, he didnt want to fight . He was a broken down fighter which attracted Leonard

Two weeks after the Leonard fight I saw Leonard interviewed by Jim Hill, asking if he wanted a rematch with Hagler and Leonard gave a definite NO

Not only did he not want Hagler but wanted no part of any defenses

It was hagler who called for a rematch and it was Leonard who refused. He refused until Hagler had been retired a few years when he saw Marvin at some convention and asked Arum to set up a rematch with an out of shape (same as Duran) to which Hagler replied "tell Ray to get a life"

 

"“The only fight out there for me is Leonard. Leonard gave up my belt, so if I fight him now it would be for my own personal reasons.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-11-22-sp-24119-story.html

"He kept after us all the time," said his manager, Pat Petronelli. 'Get me Leonard again.' He said it over and over.

"We really tried. We constantly called Leonard's manager, Mike Trainer, but we could never get together. We knew Leonard was the only reason he would fight again."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1990-12-09-1990343140-story.html

 

I literally just posted a 10-page interview with Hagler six months after the Leonard fight (October 1987) where Marvin says he isn't sure if he wants to fight again.

And a link from an interview with Bob Arum who said Leonard asked Bob one year after their fight to get Hagler to agree to a rematch, and Marvin declined. Not YEARS later. Spring 1988.

Marvin didn't ask Bob.

Marvin said in the interview he still hadn't spoken to Leonard six months later.

Who was supposedly trying to get Marvin this rematch? Because you had to talk to Leonard or Arum to get it. Top Rank was promoting both at the time.

Seems like if Marvin isn't talking to either, he isn't exactly pushing for a title shot.

 

Not really ... it's a yes and no( Because Ray had that same popularity to go in and out of the Sport when he wanted as he did . same as Mayweather did ) ..contract wise yes its different.. But Ray made Tommy weight 8 YEARS for his rematch .. same rematch Duran gave Leonard ( Ray didnt honor Tommy)... Ray cherry picked the rematch with Hearns thinking he would be shop worn ..... It back fired .. he lost the fight and got floored twice .... so I agree with you 99% but there is context

 

Nice to see a diversity of strong opinions on the board these days ..

 

It's funny because I always felt the rematch was a draw ... yes Tommy floored him twice but if you watch there last round Tommy was clinging on for his life that to me could have been a 10-7 round ... thirty more seconds and he was done ... still, a classic fight ..

 

You literally ignored the sources that I quoted which imply the opposite of the point you're trying to make.

 

10 - 7 round is a bit much without a KD imo .. but it was a good fight , and I will
say if it went longer we know who would have been in trouble
At least they were GREAT friends since teenagers and still are, at it was really cool of Ray to concede the fight to Tommy many many times

 

Marvin was done after the Leonard fight .. he knew Leonard stole the event , out shined him, surprised everyone with his performance and that he himself underperformed , fighting a dumb fight ... do matter what he said after it was an extremely close fight either way you decided it and it should not have been .. Marvin was mad at the world , Leonard owned his mind , Hagler had his own personal issues and he had enough ... he did not want the rematch after the fight or any time close to after it ... he may have publicly taken a position that he was robbed but he was more frustrated with the fact that he wasn't;t what he had been and he could lose again ... people forget that Leonard was the younger man .. his accomplishment was terrific but he picked the right time to come back against a much slower, less focused Hagler ..

 

He did , no question ... maybe it's time I rewatched it ..

 

40 fights is not so few

 

I read both. The first link doesn't contradict anything.

Hagler thought he won. He might come back if the public demands it. That was printed a month after the 10-page interview I posted where Hagler said he wasn't sure if he had the desire. He thought he might wait for someone to unify all the middleweight belts and he said honestly he wasn't sure if he wanted to come back. He didn't say he wanted to come back in your link, either.

It never said anything about him PUSHING for a rematch.

In other words, he wasn't pushing for anything.

The second link was three years after the fight, after Hagler retired, when the Petronellis said they used to call Trainer constantly ... whatever that means ... while Marvin is living in Italy, making movies and doing everything other than boxing.

Is constantly three times in three days? Three times every day for a year, over a thousand times? Arum said I remember the night we spoke. I remember the feeling I got after we talked that the rematch would never happen.

The Petronellis weren't specific. They were vague. (We called constantly.) Hagler was vague. (Maybe if I get the desire back. Maybe if someone unifies.)

At a certain point, Leonard and Arum both moved on

Hey, Top Rank promoted both Hagler and Leonard at the time, maybe CALL BOB.

If Joe Joyce's manager can't get Tyson Fury's manager in the phone, does he just shrug his shoulders? Or does he go to their shared promoter?

Whatever man. I posted a link before that I can't find at the moment where it showed the breakdown of the money offer for the rematch and Hagler turned it down.

If I find it, I'll post it. But Hagler fell into Dave Tiberi mode after that loss. He screamed to high heaven that he lost. But it was easier to complain than do something about it.

As he said, if he got the drive back, he thought he could win a rematch. But, apparently, he never got the drive back.

 

Camacho was lucky that he caught Ray Leonard when he did. Same with Howard Davis Jr.