Why did Sugar Ray Leonard have so few fights?

Ray seems to have gotten out with his mental faculties in order and in good physical health. His finances are set for life.

I’d say 40 fights was more than enough. Better than the vast, vast majority of fighters after their fighting days are over.

 

In the early 80s, right after Camacho broke out into the national spotlight, if someone said Camacho would eventually beat Leonard, Duran and Mancini ...we'd have all thought Hector must've become the greatest ever.

Timing is everything.

 

In other words, you’re falling back on the words of Bob Arum to validate your point. I see an issue with that.

It’s common knowledge in boxing that Hagler wanted a rematch with Leonard but was denied it. In the first source I quoted, I did so because he said he didn’t care if Leonard had a belt. You tired to make a point about Hagler needing the belts at stake.

I looked those two sources up in about three minutes while taking a dump. There’s plenty more out there.

You’re welcome to question the validity of Hagler wanting a rematch, but to cherry pick sources when there’s plenty in the opposite direction is a little weird. At best, it’s unclear.

 

I'm falling back on a 10-page direct quote interview with Marvin Hagler - at a time when all you guys claim he was desperately trying to get a rematch with Leonard - and Hagler, himself, is saying he doesn't know if he has the desire to fight anymore and maybe I'll fight again if someone wins all the belts and unifies so I can win them all back.

That's why I took the time to find the magazine, take photos, and share them with you.

Not just take a dump and post links that say nothing.

If you think one quote three years later with Goody and Pat saying, "yeah, we called them constantly" is more revealing than a 10-page Marvin Hagler interview during the time period we're discussing ... feel free to go take another dump and ponder what you choose to believe.

And ... you're welcome. Sorry I bothered.

 

same here.

its hard to accept actual results especially when the results are not to our liking

 

you just had to be around at the time to know these things. otherwise, you end up getting confused reading these articles

 

Funny. It's my magazine mailed directly to my home. Want to see my ticket stub to Ali-Holmes? Still have that, too. Was your dad even born then?

 

I’d rather have this https://www.ebay.com/itm/1753337738...1soyyCVfqja4orSM-1BT9mDrqOYwHKqMaAoLaEALw_wcB

 

No thanks. I went with my dad. You can't buy one of those on ebay.

Go take another dump.

 

Here’s 88 evidence that Hagler’s team was pushing for the fight. Same period as the KO magazine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...rematch/a92e5c51-41e4-465c-8baa-6a97e08638d6/

 

The interview I posted was conducted in October 1987.

So, on May 11, 1988, an article is posted by the Washington Post saying:

Marvelous Marvin Hagler for the first time indicated yesterday that he would like to fight Sugar Ray Leonard again.

Hagler, while publicizing a movie in Milan, Italy, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that he is hoping for a return fight against Leonard "which could produce the richest ever purse in boxing history."

Leonard's lawyer, Michael Trainer, said of Hagler's remarks, "I'll believe all that stuff when I hear it from {Hagler's lawyer}. That's how it's been done in the past. I don't believe Ray will react until he hears it from Marvin's lawyer."

Hagler's lawyer, Morris Goldings of Boston, said late yesterday that he and Trainer have been "exploring options" on a second Leonard-Hagler fight. "They {negotiations} have been on a hypothetical basis, with neither side committing {to} the other," Goldings said of his conversations with Trainer.

"Mike and I have never stopped talking since the first fight," said Goldings. "But recently I was given authority to explore {Hagler's} options. We have held initial discussions."

Goldings said that no specifics were part of their talks, such as "who's going to challenge whom" and the "financial details."

But Goldings did say that he had received "an indication" that Leonard was interested in fighting Hagler again.



So, 13 months after he lost to Leonard ... once Marvin was done divorcing his wife, leaving his kids, buying a place and moving to Italy, making a movie, and was traveling around promoting his first movie, Hagler finally gave his lawyer permission to begin actual negotiations for a Leonard rematch.


Then, roughly 30 days later, Marvin Hagler announces his retirement.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/13/sports/hagler-retires-from-ring.html

And Marvin says:

Marvelous Marvin Hagler, the former middleweight champion, announced his retirement from boxing today, saying he didn't want to wait around for a rematch with Sugar Ray Leonard.

Hagler has not fought since losing a split decision to Leonard April 6, 1987. He retires with a record of 62-3 with two draws.

''My heart says yes but my brain says no,'' Hagler told NBC following its broadcast of the World Boxing Association middleweight championship fight between his brother, Robbie Sims, and Sumbu Kalambay. Hagler was at ringside to watch his brother fight Kalambay, who retained his title on a unanimous decision.

''I feel fortunate to get out of the ring with my faculties and my health,'' Hagler said. ''I'm going to say goodbye to boxing. I'm going to retire and go into the movies.''


"My heart says yes but my brain says no." Just after giving his lawyer permission to negotiate, he retires.



It's almost like Marvin telling the Associated Press DURING A PRESS TOUR FOR HIS NEW MOVIE that he wanted a rematch with Leonard was just a way to GENERATE press and let people know he was in a movie. Right?

Because once his lawyer ACTUALLY began negotiating with Leonard's team, Hagler said his heart wasn't in it and retired to make more movies. Right?


So I guess Goody and Pat didn't know Marvin's lawyer had an open line of communication with Trainer the whole time?

Or else the Petronellis were probably not "telling the truth" when they said they were calling Trainer "constantly" and he just never called back?


Yeah, the more links you post, the less this story of Marvin "pushing" for a rematch the whole time sounds kosher, right?

 

Not to divert the thread but that's an interesting theory. HW boxing was dominated by Americans until around the turn of the millennium. I chalked some of that up to the exploding contracts in the NBA and NFL that emerged and diverted big athletic guys away but the Ali factor maybe did play a role too.

 

There's always some kind of holdup when it comes to these kind of matches

Notice how easily matches with Kalule, Ranzany, Price, green, Lalonde, Howard all went?

and how timely!

but when it comes to Hagler, the first time took five years, something to the tune of "it just isn't there"

and the rematch was never made. When Hagler sought one, Leonard was hesitant. So hesitant in fact, that Leonard twiddled his thumbs for a year until Hagler announced his retirement, after which Leonard finally summoned the courage to ask hagler for a rematch. What a joke

 

I've always thought so.

Look at the boom of heavyweights in the UK after Lennox Lewis finally had some success. The more successful, retired boxers there are, the more young people you attract, the better.

Just take a look at Floyd Mayweather. He retired with more money than he can spend and whatever brains he had still in tact. And every young, smallish boxer wants to be Floyd Mayweather ... super rich and successful. Practically none will, but that's the dream.

NFL players retired and had long careers calling games and being sports personalities. When the NFL realized players were suffering from CTE, the number of players in high school dropped dramatically. You get fewer people trying out a sport where you end up all messed up.

And when Ali, who everyone said was the best heavyweight ever, left the ring as damaged as he was, it didn't exactly drive a new wave of young heavyweights in the US to take up the game. In fact, you had guys like Mike Tyson wanting to punish Larry Holmes for "hurting" Ali. Riddick Bowe ended up a mess, too. Holyfield is Mr. Mumbles. Tyson went to prison (as did Bowe).

If that's how damaged the best get, how damaged to the guys who aren't the best end up?

Look how Tyson is embraced now that he's actually kind of healthy. People are so happy he's not a train wreck.

There is a definite cause and effect.

Let guys get out in tact and financially sound, young kids will see a future in it.

 

May 11, 1988
Marvelous Marvin Hagler for the first time indicated yesterday that he would like to fight Sugar Ray Leonard again.

"Mike and I have never stopped talking since the first fight," said Goldings. "But recently I was given authority to explore {Hagler's} options. We have held initial discussions."

One Month Later:

June 16, 1988
'My heart says yes but my brain says no,'' Hagler told NBC. ''I feel fortunate to get out of the ring with my faculties and my health,'' Hagler said. ''I'm going to say goodbye to boxing. I'm going to retire and go into the movies.''