Was prime "Iron" Mike Tyson the greatest heavyweight of all time?

Fair calls. Another fair one would be that the reasoning and suspicion that surrounds Holyfield in those two fights/losses doesn't do him any favors either.

 

Hey Vic

Excellent post pal. However, just one thing….

Don’t forget the Secrets of Isis - JoAnna “Isis” Cameron, omg, what a hottie!

Lee Majors was okay but I don’t bat for that team. And I’m not even sure which or what team bats for the Hulk. Haha.

 

True, but Michale Spinks might beg to differ - he was worried that he might end up dead. I think he had an NDE even before he got in the ring.

 

No, it doesn't. Very hard to know what to make of those fights, I think.

 

I feel Bowe never lost against Holy, the second fight wasn't exactly a robbery but to me Bowe should have been given the Champion's Benefit of a Doubt on the scoring.

 

And yet the police still call it an unsolved case. It's almost like you're trying to pass off your opinion as a fact again.

I have already heard that 50 page essay explaining what happened to Tyson.

We literally just agreed with each other Tyson is less great for losing focus and not sustaining a high level of elite skill consistently.

Your 100m dash analogy doesn't work. Just because Tyson was the youngest person to win the titles and did it in the quickest and most dominant fashion doesn't make him the best ever. That's why quality of opposition is important and you can't just gloss over it. You criticized every single champion I brought up calling their opponents bums, bringing up injuries, the fact some were past their primes, etc while ignoring the fact the same applies to many of Tyson's opponents. I'm still waiting for you to address that.

 

Pre Douglas Tyson was a terrifying fighter. Maybe it was clever matchmaking. Maybe it was talent. I will let others discuss and decide. But you should be able to make the case for him without denigrating Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Zora Folley, and Ernie Terrell.

 

If I may interject, people give Tyson a lot of crap for his losses to 42-1 underdog Douglas and ignore all the excuses about japanese maids, losing Rooney, etc. I don't think it's fair to be harsh on Tyson saying "a loss is a loss" and then make excuses for Hoylfield losing to Moorer and Bowe. I rarely see people criticizing Hoylfield for very lackluster performances all throughout his career, he could be very inconsistent hot/cold boxer.

 

Haha about Hulk! Yes…The thought of a Horny Hulk is kinda scary. I bet his milkshake won’t bring all the girls to the yard!
And agreed on Gal Gadot…she’s defo worthy of the Wonder Woman costume. I heard the lass that played Xena Warrior Princess was up for the Wonder Woman role at one stage…she was defo built for all that superhero business.
But I’m sure glad GGG (Gorgeous Gal Gadot) got it instead. (I gotta at least throw in a boxer’s name to keep up the pretence we’re still chatting all things pugilism)

 

If Holy actually had a disease/pre-existing condition that hampered his performance, then I think it's a different thing than just not preparing well. But if it was a side effect of HGH use then he gets no leeway from me. That's why I don't know what to make of that.

For what it's worth, I think Holy looked much worse than his usual self in Bowe 3 than Tyson did against, Douglas. He seemed to be gassing already in the second round, which was quite extraordinary for a fighter known for his stamina. Tyson, on the other hand, who had not had his stamina really tested before, stood up under a battering for almost 10 rds.

Holy looked unwell to me while Tyson didn't look as the out partied corpse many claim he was.

That's just my take, but heart condition, if that was what was ailing Holy, is a more valid excuse than not preparing well, in any case. If not use of HGH was responsible for the condition.

 

I’ve always thought of Holy was healthy he would’ve beaten Bowe in this fight and took the series.

 

Here's my take: if we don't banish Hoylfield from the ATG rankings for his obvious steroid abuse, he gets no excuse for suffering from the bad side effects contributing to his loss. He knew the risks (or should have) taking something to enhance his performance that gave him an unfair edge over his opponents.

If a fighter has a well documented medical issue (preferably prior to a fight) that isn't the result of cheating, he can get some leeway for the loss. Bonus points if they have a rematch and then avenge that loss or at least look much better attempting to avenge it.

 

Quite possibly. Bowe was slipping at this point.

But as several of us have said, if his issues were caused by illegal substances that had helped him earlier he doesn't get a pass when they do the opposite.

 

I agree. What's your view on it if you don't mind me asking? He always claimed it was a genetic heart condition but as far as I could see, it didn't seem to run in the family.