Wills Fights Willard In 1919

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 18, 2023.


  1. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good health is a chancy thing. You have it until you don't!
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    My Wife says giving up drink ,smoking,eating what you like, doesn't make you live longer ,it just seems like you are!
     
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Wills was a smart businessman, and this would inform his decision making.

    He would probably have the same plan as Dempsey, to hold the title for a few defenses, and hopefully make enough money to be financially secure.

    He would take less fights than in the actual timeline, because he could make more money for a fight, and he risked losing the title when he stepped into the ring.

    He almost certainly fights Carpintier for example, as a comparatively low risk high reward fight.

    With no Dempsey to defeat Fred Fulton, it is very likely that we see Wills Fulton at some point, but this time with the title on the line.

    He might be a decent chap and give one of the top black contenders like Norfolk a shot, but I see him fighting more white opponents than in the actual timeline.

    The hype train behind Firpo would likely lead to that meeting eventually.

    It is possible to imagine someone like Tommy Gibbons dethroning him, once he has started to slip.

    If not then Gene Tunney is coming for him eventually.
     
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  4. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Wills was largely seen as a respectable and commendable man even despite how his race was wrongly perceived back then I don’t think a race riot would’ve transpired, but I don’t speak for the white America of 1919.
     
  5. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    A smart business man who didn’t even try to sell the fight against Dempsey,when he had his shot against Firpo. Smart indeed, Jack would’ve sprayed Harry’s blood all over the arenas walls!
     
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  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think by that point the vast majority of the top heavyweights would have dethroned Jess Willard. In hindsight it almost looks as though Dempsey’s fight with him was more ceremonial than a serious title bout. Jess was finished
     
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  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Wills had bad hands and had just had surgery on them earlier that year. You dont sell a fight by breaking your hands and then not being able to participate in the fight. He was already considered the top contender by anyone that mattered and had the backing of the NYSAC. What more should you do to "sell" a fight? Dominate a guy who Dempsey went life and death with? Oh wait, he did that too...
     
  8. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    It’s a business Wills fought like a man who wanted people to sleep in the crowd so he didn’t get the shot- end of.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That is not a good reason.
     
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    That is the reason- it doesn’t have to be good but it was just business. I think Wills should’ve got it on virtue of achievement but the draw of the gate mattered too much to let Wills fight like a grappler against Dempsey.
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Wills would have diced up the old Willard and likely held the title till age caught up with its as he was multiple years older than Dempsey ... as far as defeating him say before 1924, the only one with a real shot to me would have been Dempsey ...
     
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  12. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    No its a convenient excuse to duck your top contender by saying you are damned if you do and damned if you dont. If Wills had turned in a performance against Firpo where he got dropped three times they would have said "Well he struggled with Firpo so he isnt good enough to get a title shot." Instead he dominated him easily including handling Firpo's vaunted strength (the only thing he had) like he was a baby and still they found something to ***** about in order to continue ducking him. Just like every other eliminator he fought. "I'll fight the winner of Wills-Fulton." Wills crushes three of Fultons ribs and instead a sickly Miske gets the title shot. Wills knocks out Norfolk, the guy Tommy Gibbons has been ducking for 6 years and yet Gibbons gets the title shot despite losing his own eliminator to Greb. Dempsey tries to set up a match with Madden and a rematch with Firpo, Wills dominates both sending Madden to the hospital with a grotesquely rearranged face and easily beating Firpo and yet that isnt enough. Dempsey floats the idea of fighting Weinert. Wills knocks him out in an easy two round blow out and hes still ignored. I could go on but I think anyone with one eye and half a brain cell can see Dempsey didnt want any of what Wills was bringing. He wasnt a retread like Brennan, he wasnt a dying man like Miske, he wasnt a small light heavyweight who spent most of his career at MW like Gibbons or Carpentier and he wasnt a big oaf whose entire reputation was carefully crafted by Tex Rickard specifically to be lead to slaughter by Dempsey. No, if you want to ensure you are going to keep the gravy train rolling you best give Harry Wills a wide birth because he was big, he was strong, talented, he could box, he could punch to both the head and body, and he had experience. Being black, among the plethora of other excuses Dempsey used to avoid stiff competition, was just that: a convenient excuse and one that was rapidly catching up to him by the time he got his ass kicked in a one sided match by the next best contender to Wills.
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey Wills would probably have been another million dollar gate.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    For the purposes of this thread I stipulated Dempsey did not exist.I did so expressly to avoid these diatribes,these hate campaigns that closely resemble Mendoza's,phobic, and vitriolic crusades against Jack Johnson.
    Anyone who has been here for any length of time is fully aware of your opinion of Jack Dempsey," he was a ducker and a coward" etc ad nauseum.

    Now can you just park that opinion outside the gate for once?

    It isn't relevant to this thread,the subject is HARRY WILLS , challenging and probably taking the title from WILLARD and whom he would then defend against , how successful he would be and how long his reign would last?
    So ,could you manage to confine your comments to THAT SUBJECT and leave your favourite punching bag Dempsey out of this thread please? Thanks.
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey does not exist He is like George Bailey in." Its A Wonderful Life" he never was!