This fight was interesting to me,because it seemed like Joe had the right idea. but I always wondered, to me,it looked like the reason why Joe lost this time as opposed to last time,was that he looked like he gassed out more than he was hurt. After that one huge slip he was leaning on the ropes. I am just wondering if you guys think he actually was hurt or he gassed before the actual knockdown
I thought the second fight was sadder than the first. In the first fight Frazier was Frazier. He didn't look right as an out boxer in the second. Frazier was built to pressure bigger men. Foreman was just a different kind of cat.
I actually really loved the way Joe fought in the 2nd (haven't seen him fight much. I am doing an Ali marathon and am at the Bonevana fight,so we will see how the FOTC is). But Joe looked good in the 2nd, George was missing almost everything it looked like
I respect your opinion. I look forward to others, to me Joe on his backfoot didn't look right. If you are doing an Ali marathon pay close attention to the Jimmy Ellis fight. Harry Wiley, who trained Sugar Ray Robinson, was in Ali's corner as Angelo Dundee was in Ellis' corner as he was with Ellis longer. Wiley taught Ali the shoulder roll which he executed beautifully. He would spend large parts of some rounds dancing around Ellis with his hands down and Ellis couldn't capitalize. It's one of my favorite Ali fights.
I watched Ali fight Quarry after he fought Foley, and I know that was after the Lay-off but god Muhammad looked AWFUL. where as before he was floating around the ring, now he just looked like he was jumping up and down
As @ThatOne said, Frazier on the back foot isn't Frazier. Stylistic changes against a guy like Foreman may be necessary, but Foreman was Frazier's poison. Frazier would rather die than duck a fight, that's why he fought Foreman twice.
I gave him 1 but I felt George was swinging and if he could have kept it up,he probably could have gassed him. The problem was he looked like he gassed himself
Some folks don't like it but the rock, paper, scissors analogy holds here. Joe Frazier is never beating George Foreman.
To be honest. A part of me, even though Joe looked good. I felt that if George just put the gas on the pedal, he would have just ended it in 2 rounds like the first time. Joe didn't have the chin,speed to deal with him. Also Joe from the few fights I saw, he didn't throw enough punches either nor did he have the power. Usually when I think Joe could have won at times. I just look at the tactics ,but the problem was Joe just didn't have the physicals to deal with him. I don't really think it was a stylistic thing, it was just that Ali was just a lot more physically gifted than Joe was. Joe had the power,but Ali had the speed,legs,IQ,chin. Joe just wasn't a genetic freak like Ali or Foreman was. I refuse to believe the reason Ali beat George was purely based around his gameplan.
The smart move would probably have been sit that one out. Anyway I thought Ali looked great in that fight.
To me the rock paper scissors thing is just a bunch of crap. Joe was Ali's poison , so was Norton. But that didn't mean much ,he still beat both twice, so that is why I don't buy that style makes fights. Thinking a bit more, and not looking at fighting strategy. I just don't think the reason why Joe couldn't beat George was a stylistic problem. The problem was that George just had the phyiscals to beat Joe. George had the chin,the reach,the power,the strength. It took Ron Lyle,who was a murderous puncher,arguably I'd say the 3rd hardest puncher in the 70s. The more I think about it,it was never a styllistic problem.
Ali was sine qua non. There's a great interview with Emanuel Steward where he basically said Ali fought guys who were all wrong for him and still beat them. That being said there is a great deal of truth to the observation that a slugger beats a swarmer because the swarmer comes right at him, the pressure fighter beats an out boxer because he doesn't like to be crowded, and an out boxer beats a slugger because he provides openings. Of course there are exceptions.