Frazier Vs Foreman 2

Joe had nothing left after Manila. Fighting in a more defensive mode in the second Foreman fight only delayed the inevitable and,as has been said,George was taking his time more.

 

Dropped by Mike Bruce too.

 

As I understand, he received a standing 8 count against Bruce which technically constitutes a knock down but not being “dropped”.

 

Fair play Swag!

 

I'm watching it again now.

 

You are FAR too kind Swag, but I will take any compliment that comes my way.

I agree with you. Poor Joe wasn't just trying to survive, he was obviously trying to take George into deeper waters in the hope that he would gas (ala Zaire). So, he fought against "type", more mobile and evasive - and yes, Joe was even more damaged goods post Manila.

Under Clancy, Foreman fought extremely well in the rematch, very well metered and paced. Perhaps if George stepped it up, he might've got Joe out of there sooner - but Foreman was also boxing patient for future viability - for matches that would potentially require him to go more than 4-5 rounds.

Also, I believe Frazier's camp put the ref on notice - making a point warning Foreman off from his usal pushing, shoving- overall manhandling. Notably, Foreman refrained from same for most of the fight, keeping the fight more open, and Joe did get some very nice, whistling hooks through as a consequence, imo. And, with Joe getting some shots through, Foreman did revert to "type" and try on a bit of pushing/shoving - and he was duly warned for same.

You summed it up perfectly as to why the Foreman of Toronto can't be compared to the Foreman who fought Frazier in '76. As to chin, Joe's was very very good to great imo.

 

Isn't it incredible that one of the proudest greatest swarmers of all time had to completely give up his own strength, a strength that took him to a carved in concrete ATG level, in order to conceivably give himself a better chance. Bear in mind the man behind this change of strategy was none other than Eddie Futch.

As incredible as it is to say Foreman and Frazier was like a man in there with a boy.....twice.

 

Frazier was always dumb with money. He took the fight for money. As you state, I doubt he truly thought he'd win. Although I do think he tried to make enough adjustments to at least survive.

I will say -- if he could have made it until Foreman started gassing, he might have had a chance. I think his strategy for the second fight should have been go into 100% survival mode for the first half. Don't worry about points. Wait for Foreman to gas, then start smokin'.

 

Dangerous punchers are a ***** to fight. Unless you've got a truly granite chin (not merely "good"), you've got to avoid getting hit flush. Even unskilled dangerous punchers are a *****, and Foreman was reasonably skilled.

Hell, and even if you do have a granite chin, a dangerous puncher could just shred your face and stop you on cuts.

 

I just watched the fight again. If Joe wasn't swarming he wasn't scoring.

 

As it was, did anyone feel that George still appeared a bit fatigued by the end of the Frazier rematch? I thought he was huffing a puffing a bit even though he was much better paced than in many other recent fights.

 

I was at the fight. the crowd was like 90% for Joe. And nobody liked Foreman and that's why the odds on the fight were closer than they should have been.

As to the fight itself, it was one of those mice in the cage with a boa constrictor fights. Once the boa decides it's hungry and wants to eat, the bout is over.

 

Yeah he did appear to be a bit tired, but Frazier was uncharacteristically gassed and in much worse shape. Frazier actually had a decent round in the 4th (Foreman still took it imo but it was probably Frazier's best round in two fights against Foreman). It was Frazier's last hurrah so to speak.

 

I don't think Foreman was phoning in anything, as Pugguy stated he'd actually paced himself a lot better than in recent fights. Now if you mean Foreman wasn't going all out like pre-Zaire Foreman would, then I agree.

 

Honestly Foreman in the Frazier bout looked much better here than against Young.

He was evidently much better prepared imo because of a couple different reasons

1. He took Frazier very seriously despite demolishing him 3 years prior. He stated himself he didn’t consider Frazier a retirement stop and still feared him to a degree.

2. He didn’t take Young seriously at all evidently. He didn’t even need to take the bout, he was the number 1. Contender, but he obviously didn’t see Young as a potential roadblock in his path or he wouldn’t even take the fight at all.

Also he flew in literally the day of the fight, and suffered from jet lag, likely knowing the possibility of such a thing but probably not thinking it would have any effect on the bout.

3. He was likely uber focused, not only because of the threat that Frazier (supposedly) posed, but what happened in his last fight against Lyle. He was going to stay on top of his game to ensure nothing like that ever happened again.

4. He was also severely dehydrated for the Young bout which may've been the case for many if not most of his bouts in the 70s but was significantly amplified by the burning ringside lights which were said to have "created more heat ringside than in any recent bout except for the Ali-Joe Bugner title match in Kaula Lumpur (which was two years prior) that was seared by the tropical sun" which led him to suffer a heat stroke. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/109634427/lincoln-journal-star/