Could Jack Dempsey have competed in place of Floyd Patterson?

Frazier many of Ali`s shots with his head movement, Dempsey never beat a fighter with the hand speed of Ali aside from Carpentier who was very small.

 

He never faced a reach like Liston`s, Willard almost had a reach as long as Liston`s but didn`t have a jab as good as Liston`s. Liston was a harder puncher than Firpo and more skilled.

 

I think Dempsey beats Moore in 56 for the title and does not lose to Ingo in 59. I make Dempsey a underdog vs Liston, but he can win that one. It really comes down to Liston imo. If he beats Sonny, he loses to a young Clay down the road. He has a greater legend with amazing knockouts, a win over Liston and being an old man when Ali finally beat him.

 

Yeah, sure.

 

Are you going to debate Muhammad understood boxing better then Gene?

 

I don't agree that Tunney was better than Ali, but wtf are you talking about lmao?

 

He at least knew how to block a left hook.

 

Was Tunney good at slipping shots? Did he have good head movement?

 

If you don't think at the very least he'd be a serious challenge for Marciano, you're delusional. He has some very significant advantages, he's bigger, faster, more powerful imo, and looked harder to hit (though Marciano admittedly faced better punchers than Dempsey). Close to a 50-50 fight but I take Dempsey there.

 

Yes. Yes to literally everything you've just said. Tunney wouldn't have beaten Dempsey if he wasn't.

 

He was leagues better a heavyweight boxer as proven in the ring against far superior opponents. If you're going to make some silly argument about "skills" those things are all great if your style works in your favor but unorthodox is also great if you can make it work for you. Ali made his style and insane talent work for him at a much, much higher level in heavyweight boxing. They are barely comparable.

Oh, and Ali didn't avoid Black fighters.

 

One aspect of Patterson's legacy, that he doesn't get enough credit for, is his ridiculous longevity.

I am sorry if I am becoming a bore on this point, but it is pertinent here.

We are putting a great fighter like Dempsey in his shoes, and it is apparent that he couldn't even have come close to being relevant over such a long period.

I think that there was greatness in Patterson.

 

Dempsey didn`t look great in those fights, sloppy and sluggish, didn`t do much after those fights either.

 

Hyperbole nonsense. Ali literally lost to a glorified club fighter in Ken Norton. Gene Tunney is undoubtedly the more skilled operator here and my point isn’t anything to do with greatness between the two, I just don’t think Ali would have what Gene did to keep Dempsey off him.

Tell me EXACTLY what could Ali do better then Gene to keep him on the outside? On the inside Ali knew only one way and that was to clinch, he did this in an era full of guys who were not the inside fighters of Dempseys era not close.

God sake he barely scraped past a one armed hit at will Joe Frazier who beat him up in the prime of his life. He outlasted Frazier’s alcoholism and clinched how many times in the second fight? If he tries to shut Dempsey down in the clinch he’s going to learn what inside fighting is.