What was the character of Jim Jefferies?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Tockah, Jan 21, 2023.



  1. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    He seemed to have class about the Johnson fight, although he clearly was lured out of retirement for funds. What was his attitude toward black fighters, and Johnson himself? Was he as charitable as other champions? What was his nature?

    Edit: Jefferies was a *******
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  2. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    From my knowledge, he was a bit of a *****. He only came back against Johnson to bring the belt back to the 'white man', and he avoided giving Johnson a shot mainly due to him being black. Jeffries was an *******, but judging from his interviews later in life, he appeared to have humbled.
     
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  3. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    He was described as taciturn in his day = reserved and uncommunicative.

    One could speculate that a lot that he was claimed to have said was either ghost written in part or more what he his team had to say than himself.

    The pieces written in the first person likely contained core truths re the man, but in some written pieces, he came across as more a “chatty man” than he was actually described to be in real life.

    The claims that he said he could never have beaten Johnson and that he asked for Johnson’s gloves (as a keepsake) after the Reno fight don’t gel with me given what I’ve read of Jeff otherwise.

    Read some of the stuff that Langford allegedly said in the first person - the words more likely came from his not so truthful manager Joe Woodman, than Sam himself - but it was Woodman’s role to promote Sam and his career.

    It seems Jeff also wasn’t in love with the game - but saw it as a means to earning big $$$ for relatively a lot less work. It also appears he wasn’t the most confident of fighters - allegedly betting against himself in the first Fitz fight and also being somewhat timid and overly deferential to Corbett in their first fight.

    Maybe he was coming to greater confidence heading into retirement but he still, clearly wanted no part of Johnson.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Class?
    Jeffries called Johnson a skunk, a **** ,and a ******.
    He refused to shake his hand at the fights signing,and in the ring when they met before the fight.
    Jeffries many times said he would not defend his title against black fighters,as he did not want to take a chance on losing his crown to a black man. Jeffries is described as surly and rude when he was interviewed and very careful with money.He reneged on gambling debts to Reno book makers, and Tex Rickard bailed him out to enable his challenge to Johnson to go ahead in that town.
    He was by all accounts a loving husband and was devastated when his wife was killed in a road accident.
    I believe he helped TomSharkey out financially a couple of times.
    He was like most men, made up of good and bad to varying degrees.
    His racism was the norm in that era,so I suppose he can be said to have been a product of his times.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries was a bluff humorless man who liked his own company.

    He didn't like the fight fans, and he didn't care if they didn't like him.

    He genuinely seems to have thought that he was doing something positive, by drawing the color line against the best black contenders, though he did have black friends.

    For all that there seems to have been a sort of rude integrity about the man.

    If he made an agreement with someone, he seems to have honored it.
     
  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Of course it was down to script, but I watched a clip of Jeffries in one of the movies he appeared in during the 30s/40s.

    In the movie, a woman asked him either, 1) what he thought of Joe Louis or 2) if he thought he could beat him (I can’t quite recall) - Jeffries didn’t answer directly but did say “All I can say is, I beat better men that him (Louis)”. Hmmm. That’s a no from me.

    Being a product of the times definitely has to be taken on board.

    I was re-reading IN THIS CORNER by Peter Heller. In the IV with Gunboat Smith - (conducted in 1970 when the Gunner was 83), Smith dropped the N word several times - including in reference to Johnson.

    At the same time, Smith said Johnson was a nice man and that they were friends until Johnson got a big head during his reign.

    So, on the veneer, Smith’s language was racist but not so much his attitude or actions otherwise.

    It’s interesting because I’ve met people who are not too PC, including using racist terms but for all intents and purposes otherwise, they’re not actually racist.

    And the reverse can be true of other people who mind their Ps and Qs in terms of not using racist language but whose actions otherwise suggest a good measure of racist attitudes otherwise.

    Aopologies for the digression.
     
  7. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    To clarify when I said it 'seemed' to have class, I meant it in that it appeared from a surface level amount of research. I wasn't aware at all other than a few quotes Jefferies made. He seems to be an ass by all accounts, an honest one maybe, but still an ass.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    His Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition Character Sheet would be like:

    Race: Human
    Class: Fighter

    Strength: 18/00 (if you know you know)
    Dexterity: 15
    Constitution: 18
    Intelligence: 6
    Wisdom: 6
    Charisma: 13
     
  9. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    I have played 2e, there is no way he was that powerful for real is there?
     
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Which black friends did he have?
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    JEFFRIES
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Bob Armstrong.
     
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  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    He was a man of the less sophisticated class of his day .. he routinely disrespected Johnson publicly in the most vile and dismissive manner simply because Johnson didn't behave the way Jeffries felt acceptable at that time .. he paid dearly ...
     
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  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All the other stuff aside — I don’t know enough about Jeffries to have an opinion about him as a man, although I abhor anyone drawing the color line — I don’t see how you can hold against someone what they say in a movie where the line is scripted and written by someone else.

    Beyond that, the line as you relate it seems open to some interpretation:

    Did it mean:

    “I beat fighters who were better than Joe Louis” or “I beat better fighters than Joe Louis beat”?

    The latter seems open for debate (Fitz is held in rather high regard especially in P4P ratings, Corbett was also, although time hasn’t been as kind to his rating) — especially since Jeffries nor anyone else when whatever movie that was made had YouTube and the ability to really study a lot of fighters across eras … and I think several of JJ’s top opponents were regarded more highly in their day than some of Louis’ title opponents were in Joe’s day. Both men cleaned out their division in their respective eras.