Am I the only one who just can't watch George in his prime?

Cheers man - he might’ve said in that context also - but I’m beginning to recollect that he said it in a special on The Thrilla in Manila, directly related to that fight or Frazier’s reactions to Ali’s barbs In general - but I haven’t checked yet.

 

It isn't a meaningful statistic because that was one of the worst versions of Holyfield. Toney never produced another noteworthy KO at HW and had a pitiful KO%. By your logic Tim Bradley must be a devastating welterweight puncher since he was one of the only guys to stop Brandon Rios. It's yet another one of your flawed idiotic arguments.

 

He never would be that good again. He almost knocked out Jirov in the fight before. By your logic, fighters are not allowed to fade out. In Toney’s case, he tore his biceps and became obese.

 

My god you're dense. I literally said Hoylfield was a shell of himself and past his prime which are synonyms for faded out. Toney didn't have amazing punching power for 2 fights and then it fizzled out, that's not how that works. Power is the last thing to go. Rahman, Ruiz, Peter, etc didn't even blink getting hit by Toney and handled his power with ease.

The logical conclusion is that the Hoylfield Toney stopped wasn't very good because Hoylfield's chin held up against guys like Bowe, Lewis, etc. Roids aren't going to make a feather fisted guy become an elite ATG power puncher.

 

What was Foreman against Stewart for 500?

 

Once again NoNuts changes the subject after he is proven wrong.

26% KO ratio Toney was a murderous puncher at HW for stopping a shot old man.

 

His stoppage rate at heavyweight was 100% after Holyfield. He wasn’t the same guy after that.

 

NoNuts tactic #2 when backed into a corner: just change the criteria and shift the goal post so that the data fits the agenda.

 

Well no, it wasn't the Shavers who almost knocked out Holmes. It was a Shavers who suffered brutal knock outs in two of his last three, and again had severe retina issues (which ended the career of a promising young contender in Leotis Martin ten years prior) which had him and his camp considering retirement.

 

None of those guys were as powerful as Foreman, nor did they possess such sheer brute strength. Foreman was able to accomplish what he did in his early career purely with his otherworldly strength and power. Fighting the way Frazier did against Foreman is a death wish -- ducking head-first into Foreman's uppercuts will result in a KO loss 10 times out of 10. That having said, Ali exposed what Foreman truly was at that time: a power puncher devoid of any rudimentary skill outside of a stiff jab whose only method of defense was blocking punches with his face.

 

Yep, the Shavers who almost knocked Holmes out less than a year earlier. Being post retinal surgery wouldn’t have affected his performance against Cobb unless it were stopped because of his eye. You don’t know anything about eyes.

 

If Foreman was just a mindless slugger without any skill or defense who relied completely on raw power and durability he wouldn't have made it as far as he did. He probably wouldn't even make it as an amateur. This is a typical oversimplified take on his abilities.

If what you said was true, then other big mindless sluggers who lack skill/defense who just rely on sheer power such as Samuel Peter, James Smith, Chris Arreola, Buddy Baer, Dominick Brezeale, Razor Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, Luis Firpo, etc all would have had similar success to Foreman. But no, none of those guys were gold medalist and 2x champions and they certainly didn't launch comebacks in their 40's beating up guys half their age.

 

Well no Shavers was ranked against Holmes, he was unranked against Cobb. Are you forgetting you're using this win to justify Cobb's rating and by extension Norton's?

I forgot having an injury doesn't hamper you physically as long as the fight is not stopped because of it. One of the dumbest things I've ever heard from you which is quite an accomplishment.

Pretty rich coming from the guy who scored Briggs-Foreman for Briggs.

Rumor has it you also had Frazier ahead in their first fight before the fight was prematurely stopped.

 

You’re just reaching for the stars. Having had RD surgery had nothing to do with his performance against Cobb. I’m sure his eye didn’t hurt when he threw right hands. Utterly ridiculous unless the fight got stopped from an issue with his vision in the eye.

 

Yeah, Ali exposed Foreman to a degree and I'm no fan of the long guard either, but to say he was devoid of any rudimentary skills is of course a gross exagerration. But he did lack somewhat in fundamentals overall, especially when he got hurt or tired, on that I agree.