I, what you say-"dont understand boxing"-that's called having an opinion. This is a forum where we talk about opinions. Everybody has one. I disagree with guys all the time: John Thomas, Sangria, swagdelfadeel, Kasimir Kid. And you know what? WE DON'T CARE. That's what dudes do, or at least are supposed to do, is disagree, have a good time putting some work in to try and sway the other's opinion, but if he isn't able to do it, doesn't affect the amount of respect we have for one another. I don't pretend to have a flawless knowledge of history by any means, but if you are a real hardcore historian, you WILL LOVE any footage that anybody has of an old classic fight, no matter how low quality it is.
If Saintpat has already made up his mind, how come you typed up all this stuff in response? If you're going to say so that you need to clear up all the misinformation he has spread, you're wasting your time. Nobody's gonna read all that stuff you wrote in response, even if it is grammatically correct.
I was just curious also as to what you meant about me not understanding boxing. The history of boxing, or the science of fighting? You can't understand history, objective facts. You can only know it. The science of fighting-now that can be understood. I would just like to know, if it is one, or both, or at least which one you were speaking of in your paragraph.
I've already waxed long on this, but I will finally add that even if you are right, it was made meaningless long ago. Anybody who brutalizes someone else to prove they're wrong instantly makes themselves the villain. I know, I've struggled with it my whole life.
Steve, are there any particular fights you've seen of LaMotta unavailable to the general public that you feel would enhance his legacy if they were more widely seen?
Tell me more about how and why the Miami police wanted to frame Jake for prostituting a 14-year-old girl. Over not getting free drinks, lol. So a defense attorney says someone was framed and he had a brother who worked for the DA? How exactly does that stand in your mind as evidence that Jake was innocent? Are we to believe that every criminal ever convicted in Miami was innocent because some attorney tells a woman that ‘police have done that before’? Well, you apparently do. You seem to be saying it’s OK to pimp out a 14-year-old girl if she looks 16 or 18. That’s pretty sick, man.
When you post something I dont have or havent seen in better condition that isnt an old sixth generation copy of a poor quality vhs tape hit me up...
With LaMotta the earlier the better. You can see that by the time he won the title he was burning himself physically or just as likely once he won the title he had climbed that mountain and just couldnt ever get up like he had in the past. Kind of like Frazier with Ali. Frazier had been so fixated on Ali for long that once he beat him in that fantastic fight he was never really able to hone himself like he had in the past. Seeing LaMotta against Raadik, Bell 2 and 3 (the long version, not the clip on youtube which is excised from the long version), Dellicurti. In those early fights you can see just how aggressive and strong he was. He was like a tornado, on his opponent all the time, winging bodypunches, incredibly strong and durable. Very high energy. You just dont see that LaMotta again after the Cerdan fight and sadly most of the footage of LaMotta is from not only after the Cerdan fight but from when he lost the title and after. In fact, the Cerdan fight is the last film you can see an approximation of a prime LaMotta. You can tell he was really up for that fight. After that fight his pace was always much slower and his style was much more conservative. But that period in his career is pretty fascinating as well in my opinion. He really showed how well he could box and change his style and be successful. The long version of his fight with Mitri shows him deadly accurate counterpunching, against Robinson hes outjabbing a guy who is not only taller and faster but has the best jab in the business, and his second bout with Murphy is a clinic. He beats the hell out of the much bigger harder punching Murphy and almost has him out when the fight ends. After Jake met Vikki he really focused less on boxing. He was clearly distracted and this is discussed by Joey in his book. You can see in his record that he was fighting less and he wasnt training as diligently. I think this contributed to his urgency in wanting to win the title before he was totally burned out hence finally being convinced to throw the Fox in exchange for a title shot. At that point he was becoming jaded and thinking he was never going to get a title a shot. He sees his buddy Rocky getting a title shot without having work for it because hes hooked up with the mob and that had to drive Jake nuts. Even in the Joey DeJohn fight which was right before the Cerdan fight you can see his style is already changing and becoming more conservative. Once Jake finally won the title he was never the same. He started drinking more, staying out late, training less, his weight became much harder to manage between that, his obsession with Vikki, and a style that typically burns itself out early anyway he was just never the same fighter after that fight with Cerdan. Thats why its hard to reconcile the footage that is commonly available with the reputation he earned on the march to the title.