Willie Pep vs. Vicente Saldivar

great thread.....I like Pep by wide unanimous decision 12 rounds to 3. Pep was one of the rare boxing breeds, at his best he was virtually impossible to beat on the cards.....He didnt just have the amazing pernell whitaker defense and gliding footwork to get out of harms way, he also possesed fluid accurate fast combinations on offense.

Salvidars tricky style with his very fast hands and combination punching will give pep some brief problems, but pep would adjust......salvidar did alot of lunging and missing and pep would be moving in and out pop pop pop salvidar will chase him down hitting only air, pep will just keep circling and circling popping him with combinations on occasion......Salvidars aggresive style will be neutralized by peps counterpunching. pep is at his best fighting on the back foot. Pep simply just has too much skills. Pep didnt take rounds off, he boxed smart and he boxed not to get hit but to win every round....and he did on some very good fighters. ATG Sandy Saddler managed to just win 4 of the 15 rounds in the rematch and this was a past his prime pep, and was far behind in the 3rd and 4th fights on the cards before saddlers dirty illegal tactics caused severe injuries on pep that caused him to quit on his stool......Anyway Pep has a style salvidar has never seen before and the only fighter he fought close to pep in ed jofre, jofre knocked him out.



I rate Willie Pep # 1 featherweight of all time and # 1 fighter of all time

 

This is an interesting thread with some great posting! I'm not really going to get into saying more than this, but it is fun to read opinions from two well versed on the subject... even though they, ironically enough, may have views that diverge a little

 

I'll be taking Pep, but he will work his ass off for this 1!

 

This would be the Featherweight Marciano in Saldivar against the great Willie Pep. This would be a great match. Pep would win a narrow 15 round decision and Vincente Saldivar would press him all the way. It would be very very close with maybe a rematch.

 

While Whitaker posessed a better jab and better ability to fight off the backfoot, which is why Pep couldn't deal with fighters like Angott and Saddler, and if you're of the mind that Pep would beat a prime Saddler, what's your opinion of Angott?

 

What serious injuries were those? Worse than a shoulder dislocation, etc?

And Saldivar lost to Jofre at the very end of his career, even though Jofre was also not in his prime.

 

Stylistically speaking Saldivar would have given Pep problems at any point in his career, especially had they met after Willie`s return to the ring following the plane crash as he had lost a step by then. Vicente is one guy who to this day still hasn`t gotten his just dues I feel, this man really was some fighter and p4p one of the strongest men that ever stepped into a ring. Saldivar was relentless, smart, deceptively skillfull and was a dedicated body puncher who set a formidable pace by the halfway point (he always started of slow and gained momemtum as a fight progressed) of all his fights.

He simply overpowered the boxers he met and out-fought the fighters too. Vicente was a fighter in the mould of a Henry Armstrong, and like Hurricane Hank he too was blessed with a slow heartbeat and this allowed him to set a very high pace in his fights and he was one of the few fighters I have seen who actually upped his punch output with each passing round. In my honest opinion, and this is being said from someone who probably has more footage on Saldivar than most folks do, I think he would have beaten Pep even at his most elusive best.

As S_S mentioned previously, Saldivar has faced some very, very good and fleetfooted boxers during his career and defeated them all, and while I realize that none of them were as good as Pep I can say though that Winstone certainly was very similar to Pep style wise and Saldivar beat him three times. I have all three Saldivar/Winstone fights and when watching their second bout which was the best of the trilogy I cannot help but marvel at how this man imposed his will on his more talented foe Winstone and gradually wore him down with his steady body punching and high punch output.

Winstone did well initially and was pilijng up the points with his jab and staying out of harms way with his quick feet through the first five rounds, but Saldivar punches downstairs slowed him down considerably as the fight progressed and by the 8th round the tide was starting to shift in favour of the Mexican. He just kept pressing and pressing and pressing, always digging to the body and going upstairs too in combination, and even though Howard was blocking and parrying a lot of those blows it cannot do you any good to be battered like that on the arms and elbows by a powerhouse like Saldivar.

In the last two rounds Howard was being battered about almost at will by Saldivar who was really teeing off on him and landing heavy leather on the brave but outgunned Welshman who in desperation was throwing his right hand much more frequently then he was accustomed too in an effort to try and keep his ever oncoming foe at bay, but it was to no avail. Had Saldivar and Pep met, my guess is that Pep would have gotten off to a fast start and been in the lead early on, but once Saldivar had warmed up to the task Willie would have been in a world of trouble from that point onwards.

Those body punches downstairs would have slowed him down considerably as the fight progressed into the later rounds, and combined with the Mexican`s insanely high punch output and heavy hands I can see Pep getting overwhelmed and stopped late in the fight. He would have to be at his absolute best both physically and psychologically to beat Saldivar, who much like Saddler I feel would have been Pep`s kryptonite stylistically speaking. I won`t say that Willie can`t beat him, but I will say that more often than not I think Saldivar walks away the winner between these two, and I say that as someone who holds Willie Pep in very high esteem.

 

It was a clear unanimous for pep. saddler won at most 5 rounds. Pep was past his best days when these fights took place too, to add to his legacy

All good boxers, good fighters but none of these guys compare to the elite level of willie pep. he brings many things to the table none of the above fighters have. Were talking the Willie Pep of the early-Mid 1940s.

Pep simply responded to Sandy Saddlers blantant dirty tactics that should have got him disqualified. Pep had saddler figured out and saddler knew it. Pep was once again giving saddler a boxing lesson and saddler didnt want a repeat of the 2nd fight so he got dirty, he should have been DQed. Saddler was an ATG, he rates very high on my all time list, not higher than pep though......but on film when saddler got frustrated......he got VERY dirty.


one question dont take this the wrong way pleace........do you have something against white fighters?

When you mean uncomfortable as being the good skilled pressure fighter winning 5 out of the 15 rounds vs PEAK willie pep vs zero of the fifteen rounds, then i would agree with you.......but no one IMO beats a pre plane crash willie pep although sanchez, saddler, armstrong come close.

sure trouble, but he still doesn't have what it takes to beat pep. You have to have "it" and saldivar didnt have It.

How is he going to win more than 3 rounds vs pep? he is going to be getting outslicked, outmanuevered, outboxed.........???? You cannot beat pep coming into him, its the kiss of death. You have to have freakish physical tools(long arms very tall long reach) as well as top punching skills and boxing skills to have a chance at beating pep at his very best(saddler had those freakish tools)

I love the way people bring up the sammy angott fight to try to pick at straws. They realize pep's resume is so incredible the only way to nitpick is picking out an overweight disputed decision against a hall of fame great fighter.

Sammy Angott was a great fighter, he was also MUCH bigger than pep he was a natual 135lber, pep wa sa 126lber two weight classes below. weight matters when your that small. Still, the reports I have believe willie pep won the fight.


This is ONE loss in some 150 fights.....whitaker with that many fights in a row might have had 5 or 6 losses.

 

pep 60/40 saldivar

 

Bump.
Very fascinating match up between 2 great FWs. I think Saldivar could be a stylistic foil for Pep to deal with given Saldivar's successes against slick boxer types like Howard Winstone, Jose Legra, Johnny Famechon, Ismael Laguna.

 

I've no idea who would win, but these are 2 great, great FWs. Pep is my #1 & Saldivar my #3, with only Saddler between them.