Fury and Arum Holding Up Fury-Usyk, They Don't Think Usyk Deserves 50%

All fair points. Good discussion. Hope the fight happens

 

There are reputable sources like the Independent saying Usyk made similar to Bellew. Whereas you are suggesting Usyk the undisputed cruiser champion, took an 20-80 split to Tony Bellew. Come on now, I think that is unlikely.

And saying Usyk sells less is based on a feeling and isn't supported by the numbers. Fury has no track record of monster PPV sales in UK. What percentage of Fury's 500,000 are down to him? What percentage of Usyk's 1,000,000 are down to him? It is probably an insignificant difference even if we could accurately calculate it.

The other elephant in the room with all of this, was Fury demanding 50-50 for undisputed against the far bigger draw, Joshua. 50-50 was reasonable then, so it is obviously reasonable now. So what is going on?

My position is that Fury is going to scupper the fight with these unreasonable purse demands. Yours is perhaps more that Fury has every right to in the world of business, and Usyk should take less.

edit: As with bjl12, I've enjoyed the discussion. However, I suspect we aren't going to agree. Thanks for interesting debate.

 

You too. I hope so too.

 

My position hasnt changed but I'm grateful for your opinions and discussion. I love boxing for this exact reason, where we disagree on one fighter we will likely agree on another. All the best buddy.

 

Yep. And one thing about Tony is he’s a straight shooter. No BS.

It’s going to be Hilarious when Usyk gets tired of all Fury’s bull**** and publicly agrees to 60/40 just to get him in the ring. Lol What will Tyson claim after that??

 

That would put pressure on Fury big time. Then he would have nowhere else to go but step into the ring.

Heck, at this point Usyk might as well just make Fury show his hand by simply putting the following statement out on all social media platforms and in every major British newspapers, every day for at least a week:

“Hey, Belly, here is an idea - no need to split the purse, the winner takes it all. Come on, you must be confident enough to be game. You only need to beat a middleweight midget, after all. Easiest payday in the world, right?”

 

You seem phenomenally invested in all of this - relax, it looks like it's getting done. There's no way Krassyuk would've posted that picture of him with the Warrens last night if it had ground to a stalemate.

 

I am a boxing fan and particularly interested in HW. We’ve been waiting over two decades for an undisputed bout. I was a Lewis fan but never would have thought it would be over twenty years to even get close to an undisputed bout. It has nothing to do with not being relaxed, mate. I don’t want Fury to screw this one up - and it’s a real possibility since he is known for his tendency to duck top opponents. This bout is a significant piece of HW boxing history and as such, it matters to me a great deal. If it doesn’t matter to you that much, it’s fine but that doesn’t make me “not relaxed”

 

It's just because you seem a bit irrational about it. In truth, we know very little about what's happening in negotiations. Lots of it is guesswork, so it just surprises me when people have such raging debates about hypotheticals.

 

When you read between the lines and consider track records, you can have a pretty solid idea.

I'll give you just one example: the length of contract negotiations for an upcoming bout.

Fury has always been a very difficult guy to deal with in terms of negotiations when he had any say in the matters. He never faced Davi Price back in the days when Price was unbeaten, seen as the top British HW and kept selling out the Echo Arena. Fury was still fighting in small clubs and gyms back then, fighting Price would have been huge for him - but he never did it. He didn't find the risk/reward ratio desirable.

He similarly kept dodging a Joshua fight around 2018-2019 when Joshua was still unbeaten and seen as a tough guy to beat. Just look at how interested Fury initially was to fight a twice-beaten, mentally broken Joshua last year. Or there were the diamond belt shenanigans with Whyte in 2019 - Fury avoided that fight too in the end. This cynical, Mayweather-esque career management is very typical of Fury who, first and foremost, has always been a businessman. The only two big fights against big opponents in Fury's career were the ones where he actually had no choice but to sign and get the deal done: the Klitschko bout and the first Wilder fight. For the Klitschko bout, Fury was the B side and had no other option but to agree to Wlad's terms as the challenger. For the first Wilder fight, he had to rebuild his career after the PED ban. But look at what happened with the Wlad rematch or the second and third Wilder fights. Things instantly became messy when Fury wasn't a B side anymore. Delays, legal troubles, a ban sold to the masses as "men'al 'elf" issues etc.

And now, look at the track record of Usyk in contract negotiations. Just the other day, Bellew confirmed what we'd already known: that Team Usyk is the easiest to make a deal with as they are not messing about, they are straightforward and honest. No silly demands, no back and forth, they just come in, sign and that's that. Look how quickly big fights like Usyk-Bellew, Usyk-Chisora or the two Joshua fights were made. All of Usyk's pro fights were signed in a matter of weeks if not days. But now, for the first time ever, when Fury is in the picture, an Usyk fight's contract negotiations are drawn-out, there are money issues, date issues, venue issues, the other party keeps talking about ridiculous alternate fights etc.

You surely don't think it's just a coincidence that these things happen to Usyk for the first time in his career when he is set to fight Fury. So while we do not know the exact details of the meetings or the proposed contracts, it's absolutely not just guesswork when we are trying to figure out why and by who's doing these negotiations are taking so long for this particular fight.

 

I don't think it's any secret or even a point of debate that Fury likes to call the shots where possible. It would be naive if he didn't.

You're right about Price, but I disagree on the Joshua situation in 18/19. Also, Bellew absolutely hates Fury so will take any opportunity to discredit him.

RE: your last paragraph. I don't see much actual evidence that the hold up is caused by the fighters, it's just a bit of guesswork by people. What do we know? Krassyuk posted a picture of him with the Warrens at the Arsenal game. There's no way he would have done this if things weren't progressing.

 

Nobody knows who the undisputed CW and the unified HW is everybody!!!! Even though he just whooped the biggest name in HW boxing at the moment twice in front of millions of viewers!

 

"Liking to call the shots" is quite the euphemism for what Fury has been doing though. Contradicting himself, lying, stalling, going back on his words, deceiving, playing on the ignorance of the public etc. is hardly just "calling the shots" in my book.

I think it's common knowledge that Fury didn't want anything to do with a still-unbeaten Joshua. I'm yet to meet anyone who is not a Fury fan and disagrees. Also, there was the Whyte-diamond belt and the Klitschko rematch situations too.

Bellew didn't talk about Fury. He specifically said he didn't know what was going on. He was asked about Team Usyk, and that's when he said what he said about them being easy to deal with. I never liked the "x hates y, his opinion doesn't count" type of arguments. Where was his dislike for Fury when he picked him against Usyk? He only recently changed his opinion, after seeing Fury against Chisora which can hardly be called hating on Fury when Usyk himself said that seeing Fury live against Del Boy, he picked up on things, chinks in Fury's armour that made him even more confident he would beat him.

About the Krassyuk picture thing - well, let's put it this way: Fury's long track record of messing about and pulling out of fights at the last minute is too big a factor for me to dismiss because of one picture posted on Krassyuk's IG. I'm convinced Fury doesn't want to face Usyk, and my view will only change when I see Fury in the ring, touching gloves with Usyk before the first round, not a minute sooner. Let's hope you are right though because I want to see an undisputed HW bout more than anything.

 

Liking to call the shots" is quite the euphemism for what Fury has been doing though. Contradicting himself, lying, stalling, going back on his words, deceiving, playing on the ignorance of the public etc. is hardly just "calling the shots" in my book.

It's not as if Fury is the only boxer who does this. Most champions do. Mayweather obviously. The Klitschko's definitely did. Joshua has too. Without turning this into a "yes but what about" thing (because we'd be here all day).. I think Fury's stick out because he's so public and not very subtle with it.

I think it's common knowledge that Fury didn't want anything to do with a still-unbeaten Joshua. I'm yet to meet anyone who is not a Fury fan and disagrees. Also, there was the Whyte-diamond belt and the Klitschko rematch situations too.

I disagree with this. The fight makes huge money so I always think it's a possibility. Fury's comments about the Joshua fight being "gone" and "no chance of happening" arguably indicate that is because he knows his full focus has to be on Usyk as it'll be a real challenge.

Bellew didn't talk about Fury. He specifically said he didn't know what was going on. He was asked about Team Usyk, and that's when he said what he said about them being easy to deal with. I never liked the "x hates y, his opinion doesn't count" type of arguments. Where was his dislike for Fury when he picked him against Usyk? He only recently changed his opinion, after seeing Fury against Chisora which can hardly be called hating on Fury when Usyk himself said that seeing Fury live against Del Boy, he picked up on things, chinks in Fury's armour that made him even more confident he would beat him.

I don't really take anything Bellew says seriously. He's a Matchroom boxing mouthpiece and dislikes Fury. I didn't know he picked Fury against Usyk because I make a point of not really caring what he has to say.

About the Krassyuk picture thing - well, let's put it this way: Fury's long track record of messing about and pulling out of fights at the last minute is too big a factor for me to dismiss because of one picture posted on Krassyuk's IG. I'm convinced Fury doesn't want to face Usyk, and my view will only change when I see Fury in the ring, touching gloves with Usyk before the first round, not a minute sooner. Let's hope you are right though because I want to see an undisputed HW bout more than anything.

That's fine - neither of us know, just speculating. At least we agree on hoping the fight happens, I am sure it will.

*apologies for formatting, tried to break your post in quotes to reply to bits individually.. didn't work obviously, but bold bits are yours and my replies are below.