Was Usyk Unbeatable At Cruiserweight ?

"Usyk was a heavyweight who moved down. He wasn't fighting in a lighter division and worked his way UP to cruiserweight."

Usyk was fighting in a much lighter division as an amateur at 19, which is at least as relevant to me as De Leon fighting in an even lighter division as a pro at 17. Neither are very relevant though imo.

I know that Usyk was fighting at 200+ in the WSB when he was 26, he first fought at SHW as an amateur at 25. I just don't see anything wrong with cutting about 10 lbs (as is the norm, even conservative with day before weigh ins) and competing at cruiser before moving up to heavyweight to win titles after you've become undisputed cruiser champion. And being a big cruiser is an advantage H2H relative to being a small cruiser.

 

One of us was banned for 6 month. And jt wasn't me.

 

I wasn't banned for six months. If I was, I'd still be banned. And it had nothing to do with Wilder. It had to do with arguing with a mod over the Light Heavyweight poll.

And since moderators ban you for arguing with them, I don't talk to moderators anymore.

You can't ban me, so **** off.

You add nothing to this place. Just trolling.

 

You were a dick in that thread with your Patterson vs Charles spam tbf.

Why do you troll so hard though, like what do you actually get out of it.

 

And I DO, especially when you're already comfortable beating super heavyweights.

Especially when Holyfield (who he's often compared to) fought when the division was 10 pounds lighter, (and may go back there) and Usyk wouldn't have been able to win anything if he had to drop 20 pounds or more to win belts there.

Usyk took the easier road. I clearly said I don't blame him, but I'm not going to praise him for doing so.

Maybe, after he loses his unification, he'll go back to cruiserweight and RECLAIM his WBC belt from Badou Jack ... and you guys can talk about how AWESOME that is.

But I'm going to pass. He should've been heavyweight the whole time ... like practically everyone who ever attempted to win heavyweight gold at the Olympics.

 

Usyk is lauded for unifying the most competitive cruiserweight division in history.

He's also twice done what you thought he wouldn't be able to do - beat Anthony Joshua.

Moreover he's done this away from home, every single time.

For the last 7 years he's consistently fought the best opposition.

Many fighters can be criticised for their resume, Usyk isn't one of them.

 

I'm overwhelmed by the irony.

 

"like practically everyone who ever attempted to win heavyweight gold at the Olympics."

The division has only been 200 lbs since 2004: amateur heavyweights prior to 2004 would generally struggle to make the old cruiser limit. In recent years we've seen more fighters who competed at amateur heavyweight or super-heavyweight in the Olympics fight at cruiser or light heavy, Hunter, Okolie and Beterbiev off the top of my head.

"Usyk wouldn't have been able to win anything if he had to drop 20 pounds or more to win belts there."

Who knows but it wasn't like Usyk was fighting men ranging from 169-190 as Holyfield was. He was fighting 193-200 pounders who were likely 205-210 lbs in the ring with him.

"Usyk took the easier road."

Glowacki away, Mchunu, Hunter away, Huck away, Briedis away, Gassiev away and Bellew away was hardly an "easy road". How many heavyweights would be favoured to pass through that going 7-0, or even 4-3? Perhaps Usyk was happy with friend and compatriot Wlad being heavyweight champion and wanted to become an almost unique two weight cruiser-heavy undisputed champ. Provided Usyk wasn't avoided at heavyweight (which he would have been, let's be real), he would have probably had an easier time skipping the cruiser run and beating a green Joshua in 2016, before unifying the belts with Wilder rather than Fury. Usyk was also in his 20's back then, likely more athletic and certainly less worn.

"Maybe, after he loses his unification"

Haven't you written Usyk off enough by now? You heavily favoured "the 5th most accomplished heavyweight of the last 20 years" Joshua to win clearly both times for some reason and Usyk's not a wide underdog against Fury. It wouldn't be a major shock if Usyk won again.

 

Indeed. It's ironic but had Usyk always fought at heavyweight, never lighter than 206-213 lbs as he was naturally at 26, he wouldn't be considered so good in a P4P sense now. He'd be seen as a standard heavyweight (albeit on the smaller side) like Povetkin. The cruiser run hugely added to his legacy.

 

The fact you guys somehow imagine these names are a kind of "murderers row" of some sort just boggles my mind.

Mchunu was knocked out, before Usyk ever fought him, by the guy Badou Jack stopped last Sunday. You know that, right? Why do people keep throwing Mchunu up as some kind of 'fearsome' opponent most heavyweights would lose to?

Hunter was a heavyweight (a SUPER heavyweight in the amateurs) who moved down to cruiserweight, too, failed to win there, moved back up and hasn't won anything ... in either division ... ever. He couldn't even get past Jerry Forrest. He is a total bust. He was even offered an eliminator to resurrect his career (after Forrest) with Hrgovic last year, and he turned it down flat.

Brieidis spent almost HALF his career (14 fights) at heavyweight. Never won anything at heavyweight. Beat Danny Williams and Charr. But bailed. Finally won a Ring belt at cruiserweight when Usyk left. And he lost to Jai Opetai. So, he's done, too.

And the "great" Gassiev is fighting some 40-year-old nobody this week who once beat Tommy Morrison's kid. Not Morrison. Morrison's kid.

And the first two times I saw Tony Bellew fight, he lost to Nathan Cleverly and he got knocked out by Adonis Stevenson. But then he found success at cruiserweight, because that's what people go there to do. And now every HEAVYWEIGHT should've been in fear of him?

Guys on this board "tear apart" everyone and all of their opponents ... down to the nub.

But people toss names like Mchunu when referring to Usyk and go how could any heavyweight possibly beat Mchunu to go 7-0? And you expect people are just going to nod in agreement?

I've honestly never seen anything like it in a really really long time. Maybe it's because most of you didn't pay any attention to the cruiserweights until the WBSS and you just assumed everyone invited was just "super."

Whatever. I promised I was finished. But I saw the "great" Mchunu's name. And you reeled me back in.

Have at it. When Usyk gets rolled, maybe the fog will lift.

Gotta go.

 

Usyk has had a remarkable run at Cruiser. Shutting out Gassiev was impressive. Winning his major fights all on the road was impressive. In the short history of the division I would say he’s the best or second best to Holyfield. Nobody is unbeatable though. Haye, Quawi - would have posed interesting style match ups for him. One an explosive punching athlete and the other a perpetual motion pressure machine. Good fantasy matchups. Usyk is a special talent.

 

"When Usyk gets rolled, maybe the fog will lift."

Holyfield got "rolled" 10 times and was lucky that it was only 10 yet people still consider him a legend. If Usyk loses to Fury in a competitive distance fight as I expect, he'll still have done better than Wlad and Wilder.

The assumption that heavyweights are vastly superior to cruiserweights has very weak grounding.

Hunter beat Bakole and Kuzmin and drew with Povetkin in a fight that many thought he nicked. Bakole dominated Yoka in his backyard, edged Kuzkin, stopped Wach and Kevin. Povetkin was coming off a unanimous 9-3 decision win away from home against Hughie; a clearer win than Parker managed against a far greener Hughie. Povetkin would go on to spark the then "3rd Ring ranked" Whyte out in Whyte's backyard.

Briedis's best win at heavyweight was sparking Charr in a fight where Charr couldn't lay a glove on him. Charr had recently lost a 10 round MD to Duhaupas, one of Wilder's best title challengers. Charr had been far more competitive with Povetkin and Vitali while those fights lasted than he was with Briedis. Briedis also had dominant points wins over former heavyweights Huck and Perez at cruiser. Huck had previously lost a close 12 round MD to Povetkin in a fight that many thought he won and Perez ran Takam (draw) and Jennings (SD loss) close over 12.

Many thought that former Klitschko title challenger Eddie Chambers would have success when he dropped down to cruiser. He made his cruiser debut against Mchunu (with Mchunu fighting away from home for the first time) and lost 9-1 by consensus.

Bellew found success at heavyweight when he twice KO'd former WBA champion power puncher Haye.

Glowacki had notable wins over former heavyweights Huck and Cunningham.

Gassiev hasn't beaten any notable heavyweights as of yet (although he's allegedly beaten up some notable American heavies in the gym) but 20-0 southpaw puncher Balogun would be a decent start. Not many undefeated Americans would travel to Armenia to fight Gassiev.

This is how it stands. There's a good chance that Hunter and Gassiev will go on to pick up more scalps at heavyweight.

It's clear that Bakole, Kuzmin and a 40 year old Povetkin wouldn't be favoured to go 7-0 against Usyk's cruiser opponents as they couldn't even go 1-0 against Hunter, who dominated Bakole and Kuzmin. Bakole and Povetkin also weren't fighting in Hunter's backyard as Usyk was. And judging by the Usyk fights, Briedis was significantly better than Hunter. Gassiev is the biggest puncher. Do any of Wilder's wins go 7-0 away more often than not against Usyk's cruiser title opponents? How many even go 4-3? Plodding heavies usually have massive trouble against fast cruisers.

 

Second best, Usyk. I'm fairly certain that Holyfield, one of the all-time punchers, that's right, would have gassed Gassiev.. in Poland, Germany, Australia, England, Canada or Timbuktu.