Note from Mike Tyson on most powerful puncher of all time

Why are we even arguing about whether Foreman or Shavers hit harder?

I personally think that Shavers hit harder.

I also think that Foreman was the greater fighter, although I am proud to have met Ernie Shavers.

You don't get a medal, for hitting harder than a greater fighter.

 

I think the overhand right is the only punch Shavers has over Foreman for raw power.

No question Foreman has the better jab.

Uppercuts, Foreman's looks more impressive. Literally lifted Frazier off his feet with them. Sent Cooney's mouthpiece into the 2nd row. Shavers best uppercut is probably against Ellis, but it was an illegal shot where he held him with the other hand.

Body shots would definitely go to Foreman.

Hooks are a toss up, I'm not sure.

 

Tyson’s speed, combination punching, and accuracy certainly aided and abetted the effect - but sometimes the address of same is overdone to the point of underrating Tyson’s raw, single one punch power - which, if not the very best, was considerable all the same.

As to Shavers, I think the reverse treatment is often applied. That treatment being his skills as a puncher being understated in order to elevate the perception and rating of his raw power.

On the available footage, some of Shavers’ most celebrated KOs, KDs or near KOs reflect fine executions and very fast, accurate punching.

In general, I think Foreman was the true epitome for raw power, not necessarily requiring any refinements or speed to crash home punches of extraordinary force.

As to the testimonials re Shavers' power - they're fine and the apparent consensus would seem to strengthen their validity.

However, there are several testimonies that can be analyzed and perhaps discredited to some degree.

Tillis for instance. Straight after his fight with Earnie, James immediately noted that Ali had TOLD him that Shavers was THE hardest puncher he ever faced. Quick of course survived a KD and went on to be Shavers - and thereafter Earnie became the hardest puncher Tillis had ever faced - on the heels of The Greatest himself bestowing that very title on Earnie.

That could be just simple agreement (with Ali) based on firsthand, perceived fact BUT, on the other hand, Tillis' dismissal of Tyson's power was OTT and ridiculous, so the possibility of bias is there.

For mine, Holmes was more or less knocked out by Mike - doesn't matter if Larry was older or what not, as far as Holmes' must've felt it - it was an hellacious punch.

Now Larry claimed he could've arisen but saw no point because he couldn't win anyway - respect to Holmesy, but I don't believe him.

Ron Stander referred to Shavers as The World's Hardest Puncher - not just based on Stander's own impressions but as a broadly applied title. So, Stander said he faced the World's Hardest Puncher and added that it was the hardest he was ever hit.

He said Earnie hit him with EVERYTHING so, there cannot be any claims that Earnie didn't connect sufficiently to secure a KO against Stander - IF it was at all possible. Stander said it was like being hit with night sticks by multiple policemen. That's fine but Stander did survive and ultimately stop Earnie. Fortunately, though scant, we have footage of Jeff Merritt absolutely destroying Stander.

In calculating the raw power of Jeff's punches, one would not have to make necessary deductions for speed, technique, accuracy etc. One only has to view the film to see such factors were NON-existent. Merritt hit Stander with punches as raw as can be, and he destroyed Ron. Earnie might've beaten Ron with "night sticks" but it appeared that Merritt blew him away with shots from a bazooka. I've never heard or read Stander make comment on that fight at all.

Leroy Caldwell famously said that Shavers hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined. Obviously, hyperbole and intended as such. BUT, Leroy himself admitted that he was wary of Lyle's power and pointedly boxed and moved to avoid same - which he said he did successfully. Leroy also said on occasion, that Foreman and Shavers' were on par in terms of power. At least as per the thin descriptions and brevity of his fights vs George and Earnie, there is little difference to choose on paper.

I love Earnie as I suspect most of us do here - and many of his opponents, whether he KO'd them or not, were similarly endeared to Shavers - which may've or may not have influenced their assessment of his power. There is a thing such as band wagon jumping - it's a real thing.

Hell, if I had to fight Earnie just for 3 minutes, I'd run around the ring like Usain Bolt just to avoid the bombs. If I made it through, I might easily have said I survived the World's Hardest Puncher - even though, when properly qualified, the fact was that I didn't actually taste the full brunt of his power.

Though, I could flavor it up and say, when I felt the mere breeze of a Shavers punch that barely missed my chin, it STILL shook all my kinfolk in country X. I say that light heartedly, because many seem most enamored by Tillis' superlative description of what it felt like when hit by Shavers.

After being levelled by Hearns, I don't believe Duran ever made extended comment on how it felt. Though speaking in another language, when they peeled Robert off the canvas, whatever he mouthed, it had the appearance of him more or less saying, WTF just happened to me? No harps, rats, angels etc. Total blackout. Lol.

 

Yes I know, that's why I mentioned it.

 

Foreman went the distance in a tough fight vs Lou Savarese, Tyson stopped him in 60 seconds. Foreman went the distance with Crawford Grimsley, Jimmy Thunder stopped him in 11 seconds with 1 punch.

Outside of chinny Michael Moorer did Foreman really stop any notable Heavyweight in his 2nd career ? Even chinny Tommy Morrison took a few solid shots from Foreman without being phased. This is not to discredit Foreman BTW I'm just genuinely curious.

I think Morrison made a good point, he said Foreman had very heavy hands, but he could see his punches coming and anticipate them. Where as he said a fighter like Carl Williams who floored him numerous times, caught him with punches he didn't see coming and they're the worst type of punches.

Foreman didn't have the explosive power, and because he was slower in his 2nd career. I think that's why a few opponents you'd expect him to stop were able to go the distance.

 

Really good post overall, on the above, there was a time, i believe, when Tillis said Tyson hit harder than Shavers. But years later, changed his tune and went down the old 'the guy i beat definitely hit harder than the guy who put me on my ass" kinda thing.

 

Some very good detailed analyses.
Certainly there is room for ambiguity.
Tyson hit very hard indeed-however accuracy & combination & even when older speed of hand at least accentuated his power.

Sometimes a guy has less resistance than normal for no known reason.
Other times one shot weakens him & an opponent is able to capitalize.
Ruiz has some power, but it was exactly where & how he hit Joshua, unexpectedly & on the temple, that spelled doom.

 

Interesting - I hadn’t heard or read that Tillis gave Tyson the nod previously.

One of Mike’s best single shots imo was the right hand on Holmes for the first KD. It caught Larry on the left temple - had it been right on the chin I really think (know) the fight would’ve been all over right there and then.

Of course all that I wrote isn’t to say Shavers didn’t hit incredibly hard, no, not at all - he did for sure, I was just throwing up other points for consideration.

Earnie’s overhand right on Holmes was one of his best, fully loaded - right on the chin. It was as if Holmes literally died and then immediately respawned to arise from that.

When fighters can rise from shots like that their stocks increase substantially when discussing their chances in H2H match ups - at least imo.

 

Bruno?? Liston?? Very hard hitters, but not top 5 imo

Shavers, Foreman, Wlad, Wilder, and Lewis are my picks

 

Agreed.For sheer '' heavyhands '' perhaps only Sonny Liston matched Big George.

 

Exactly. Joshua has gotten hit in the spot a couple times in a few fights, and he's either wobbled and lost it for a moment or he's gone down. Wlad caught him there and started him wobbling before the knockdown. Whyte caught hm there and rocked him. Ruiz dropped him multiple times.

Fury spotted it. That's why he said if he fought Joshua he'd just throw left hooks.

Some guys can take anything. But everyone has a sweet spot. Varies from fighter to fighter.

 

Frank Bruno, Mike Tyson, Razor Ruddock and George Foreman had their punches measured in London in 1991, while they were doing some charity work/event. Bruno had the highest output, his punch was said to be equivalent of being hit by a sledgehammer.
Shavers is vastly overrated.

 

I've just found the thread from 2007 where I assume you got that info from, because you repeated it almost word for word.. The posters in that thread had no source for it, or proof..

 

I'm arguing with Sugar Ray Robinson?