Felix Trinidad or James Toney?

Trinidad. He had one the best reigns at welterweight

 

I agree Trinidad ranks higher at WW than Toney does in any one weight division, based solely on exploits in that weight division.

Trinidad's dominance and consistency at WW impresses me & he beat a lot of good fighters there.

However, Trinidad fought 2 x ring magazine top 5 ranked WWs. A way past prime, much smaller, Whittaker & ODLH, a fight most scored for Oscar. I wouldn't describe his reign as one of the best in WW history.

 

you would be well advised to stick to boxing, that is what you know best instead of making medical assessments.you are not a Dr or have a degree in medicine.

 

Are you a bit slow? Or more likely in denial?

I've made zero medical assessments and simply provided you with FACTS. Facts you seem unable to grasp whatsoever half baked insults and all.

I've actually provided you, on multiple occasions, what the actual medical professional stated!

Tony Daly, Toney’s Los Angeles surgeon who performed the operation on the fighter’s biceps, said he didn’t prescribe pregnenolone or nandrolone for the fighter.

“I’m not surprised to learn that he tested positive,” Daly said, “but I am disappointed. I’m not surprised because of the big weight gain. And he looked pretty darn muscular to me.”

 

Toney looked muscular against Ruiz? this does not pass the eye test
look everybody know you just try to favour Trindidad in this thread because it is Hopkins' best win. it is pathetic you had to bring up the Ruiz fight Toney was not even in shape. you keep ignoring James's other fights at heavyweight, some 60 pounds north of his starting weight. By the same standards, how do you think Trinidad would have done at cruiserweight?

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but could you say Trinidad's Welterweight reign is a tad overrated ?

Not alot of people mention he missed out on Ike Quartey, James Page, Jose Luis Lopez, Shane Mosley.

His two biggest wins were against an inactive past it Whitaker, and a highly disputed win vs ODLH that many think he lost.

No doubt Trinidad was definitely exciting, and was mostly dominant during his reign and beat some solid names. But there are some glaring opponents he missed out on.

 

Tbh, I don't have a good enough handle on the esteem in which Trinidad's WW "reign" is held in, by the majority, to answer your question directly.

Someone claiming it was one of the best in WW history, is overrating it, imo. I'd have to check my notes to be certain as to the exact position, but I think I rank him #17 at WW all time. Certainly there or thereabouts. Very, very good, but probably just shy of ATG.

His numbers at WW are impressive and he beat some good WWs in mostly dominant fashion. Dominant wins over a faded Whittaker, Campas, Carr and the smaller Camacho, hint at a very good fighter. But they don't stand up to quality of opposition bested by my top 10 and he probably lost to ODLH on a fair scorecard.

 

Not that I'm sure it's pertinent to your debate with John, but I'd consider Hokpins win over the big LHW Tarver as better than his win vs Trinidad, who was a WW at his best.

Clearly Trinidad wouldn't do as well as Toney at CW, but even as someone who would probably rank Toney marginally the higher of the 2 based on their best wins, im unsure as to the relevance. Toney was 200lbs in high school, Trinidad was at his best at 147lbs. I'd take Toney over Pep at CW too.....

 

to a certain extent yes, but then again football and boxing are 2 completely different sports. Toney used to make less than 160 pounds. Toney's small frame did not carry the additional weight well at heavyweiht

The point is that what seperates the two IMO is Toney's run at heavyweight. Now John does not agree with that because of the drug test in the Ruiz fight

 

. This Tiberi lost will Always come up it seems, sometimes great fighters have off nights it happens. Does that negate the numerous Great wins he had over the likes of: Reggie Johnson, McCallum, Nunn, Jirov, even his Heavy weight wins against an older Holyfield, Rahman the first Peter fight which he should have won and countless other very good wins he had outside of them?

 

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Oh he had plenty of quality, but also worth noting that the Johnson fight could have gone the other way. There’s also losses to Griffin and Thadzi too.

 

Yeah, maybe I worded it wrong. He definitely had a solid reign at welter

 

It is very doubtful you even watched those fights.

He beat Johnson close but clear.There was absolutely zero controversy at the time.After a bad start, Toney came on strong.

The Griffin losses were controversial.Most thought that Toney deserved at least to win one of those.HBO scored it twice for Toney.The 2nd fight was voted worst decision of the year.Toney threw and landed more than Griffin in both of those fights and landed the harder shots.I thought Toney won both fights and the Thadzi fight as well.

 

If your gonna bring up Toney getting a gift vs Tiberi, then atleast bring up that Toney was very unlucky to lose to Griffin twice. They were both highly controversial decisions that i thought Toney won as did many people.

Toney was lazy and could have off nights but at his best he's one of the finest boxers of the modern era, and for me Toney edges it over Trinidad for for his achievements over multiple weightclasses.