Note from Mike Tyson on most powerful puncher of all time

The greatest boxer that ever lived!!!! Really! Quite a statement even about Mike. And I'm saying that as a big Mike fan.

 

I agree. Machen would’ve given ‘77 Foreman fits as well imho. That version of Foreman while mentally broken wasn’t even the best post Ali version of himself imo.

‘73 Foreman would get Machen out of there at some point though.

I’m Just irked at people saying all it took was movement to beat Liston. That’s never been remotely true. Others before Ali tried and Liston dealt with them decisively.

 

...have it, not has it.

 

All I see are excuses. If Liston struggles with a certain style, it's either he was too young, too old, or had an injury. If it happens once, you can say maybe the fighter had an off night, but 3x...? He fought Marshall more than once too.

I never said any mover would beat Liston, but he did factually struggle with movers and he wasn't that fast. You can argue all day about why, but that cannot be disputed. He couldn't cut the ring off that well and this is how some boxers were able to go the distance. A power puncher should be able to find a way to deal with speed.

 

1. Liston was extremally green against Marshall when he lost in their 1st fight. Do you dispute this?

2. Liston was at the youngest 34 and 35 against Ali in their respective bouts. Do you dispute this?

3. Liston went into the bout with an injury recorded by the Miami boxing commission. Do you dispute this?

If you can't dispute any of them, you have no right of accusing me of making excuses.

4. He fought Marshall three times and dominated him in the rematch. Why bring them up?

I'd say his handspeed was slightly above average. My original point was he wasn't as lumbering as made out to be.

I can and do dispute he struggled with movers with the exception of Ali. He handled Machen and Whitehurst beautifully.

He was a damn sight better against boxers than guys who could cut the ring off like Lyle, and '77 Foreman. I'll concede '73-'74 Foreman likely would've gotten Machen out of there.

 

1-He was. Ali was green against Sonny Banks when he was dropped by a left hook, but this was a forecast of things to come. He had ongoing issues with hooks.

2-Who knows. How does that change what I said, that he often had problems with movers and hand speed? I can only judge him based on the fights we have.

3-Yes I can say excuses because every single example I gave, it's Liston was too young, too old, had injuries, blah blah. It's the same thing Tyson and Pacquiao fans do to explain anytime they lose or have trouble. It's a very consistent issue with Liston throughout his whole career even when he wins such as Machen.

4-Youre right, he did dominate Marshall. That wasn't an important point.

I never once in this thread, or this entire forum, described Liston as "lumbering". You took issue with something that was never stated. I said he had problems with speed and his career and that he wasn't particularly fast, both of which are factually true.

He was unable to KO Machen while fellow puncher Ingo could which means he did have some flaws in his overall game. He didn't make many adjustments to stop Machen from running for the hills.

But we're not talking about Lyle, we're talking about Liston's lack of speed and having some trouble with boxers who possessed it.

 

I'm a fan of Mike myself and find that assertion overblown. Mike wasn't Joe Louis, Ali, Duran, Armstrong, Monzon, Robinson. He was certainly a top 5 h2h in his division for sure.

 

Tyson had bigger fist at 13in compared to Foreman's 12 1/2in. Tyson also had bigger thighs, calf's, ankles, neck and biceps. The chest ,waist and wrist were identical. Foreman was heavier only by 2lbs and obviously had the height.
This is based off the tale of the tape of Foreman vs Norton and Tyson vs McNeeley.

So my question is this, where did you get your note from. Foreman was taller with longer arms and legs but that's it. foreman was in no way bigger than Tyson or had more mass. And I'm comparing Foreman at peak.
If Tyson did indeed write this little note then this is no more than a ridiculous attempt to look humble and modest in the publics eye but in no way is true.

 

He never did match Foreman in strength, however power (strength+speed) is quite arguable.

 

Whenever I work out, I give everything. I have an all or nothing personality, so I won't hold back on my heaviest sets. I imagine the time will come when age will make that impossible, but for now it's everything.

I'm a lucky guy, my wife is only a few years younger than me and she's a lifter, too. We're both into cardio and squats (she does sets with over 255 regularly, weighs around 130). We've been married three years, found each other late in life but we live for Metal and working out lol!

Back on topic, Mike has become a pretty darn good dude over the years, and I like him WAY better than I did in the 80s and 90s. I'm also extremely appreciative of his heyday in the 80s, he was at least as much of a destroyer as Liston, Frazier, and Foreman were in their day, and that's saying a lot.

All that said, while I think Mike stood a fair chance with Liston and Frazier, I don't see him making it against prime Foreman. Mike only knew one way to come in, in fact whenever he abandoned that one way and became more cautious he usually didn't fight anywhere near as effectively. So, if he chooses his typical approach and comes in fast and hard, he's going to eventually get hit. Harder than he EVER got hit by anyone, period. If he chooses to be cautious after a few flush punches rock him (which he most often tended to do in those circumstances), he'll still be in range eventually for Foreman's uppercuts and rights...

Mike wasn't Joe Frazier. When he went down, he either stayed down or he got up only to be on his way to getting stopped. No exceptions.

 

I like the first part of this; but Tillis, Norton, Holmes, Cobb, and Ali all were unequivocal about Earnie.

 

I remember seeing a picture of Liston next to his doctor or cut/tape man ( im not sure) but the picture was both of them stretching out their hands next to one another and all I remember telling myself was "unbelievable! "