When Fury bodybags usyk

Wilder's win over 30-0 Ortiz is arguably better than any Vitali, Povetkin or Joyce win and many of his performances have been impressive relative to rivals. He also did much better against Fury in his first fight with him than Wlad did and is the only man not to exclusively lose to Fury.

Read my reply again (more clearly this time) for Joshua and Vitali.

Joyce has not been relevant for long and it would be stupid for Warren to have them fight prior to undisputed. Haye had a much bigger profile than Joyce and was a big favourite to beat Fury when Fury signed to fight him.

That leaves Povetkin. Fury was out in 2016 and 2017 and when he came back was focused on Wilder, from 2018 to 2021.

Povetkin's team apparently swerved Ortiz:

https://www.rbth.com/sport/2014/04/...itschko_rematch_continue_to_recede_35827.html

So why is the assumption that Fury didn't want to fight him? If anything, guys like Povetkin wouldn't want to fight an opponent with such huge physical advantages along with great skill, unless it was for a title, which Fury didn't have until late 2015. If Povetkin wanted to rematch Wlad as he apparently did, fighting the Fury who beat Chisora or Hammer would have been a suicide mission for him.

 

Ortiz has a very unimpressive resume. I don't see how we can reasonably cite that as an impressive win for Wilder given Ortiz spectacular lack of accomplishments. Who has Ortiz beaten that is supposed to impress us? Bryant Jennings is decent I guess but it ends there.

Wilder not losing to anybody but Fury isn't a good argument because he hasn't fought the other top dogs which obviously means they can't beat him. Aside from Fury I would say the following were his biggest threats
Wladimir Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
Anthony Joshua
Oleksandr Usyk
Joe Joyce

He fought none of them

 

Spot on. Only Fury fans big Wilder up who has always been a protected fighter with no notable wins on his 46 fights resume apart from an ancient Ortiz.

 

Perhaps but people have short memories because before the 1st fight he was wrote off and many people also thought Wilder would chin him in the 2nd fight as well.

Now they try to discredit the win yet forget how it was perceived beforehand. The same with the Wlad fight.

 

Wilder is manufactured champ, but beating him is some kind of achievement because he's otherwise really good at landing that dreadful right hand - how many heavyweights you see getting up after one? So there is some credit in beating him as many boxers were actually winning on points against Wilder before him knocking them out. But then, why some suggest Usyk vs. manufactured champ if the Fury fight doesn't happen? The only one left for him is Joyce.

 

- Vitali retired in 2012... Fury wouldn't have been anywhere on his radar at the time lol

- Joyce has only recently started coming into the conversation as a 15 fight pro... it was only 2 or so years ago people thought novice Dubois would beat him.

- AJ, well we all know about that. Boxing politics, promotors and TV networks are ruining this fight. Although isn't it funny Fury's team could get a fight over the line with Wilder in quick time no less than 3 times however the AJ and Wilder negotiations were a complete shambles ?

- Povetkin...... got beat by Wlad in 2013 who Fury duly beat in 2015. Also got chinned by Whyte in 2020 who Fury knocked out in 2022. Fury was out of the ring from 2015 to 2018 Fury for well documented reasons and from 2018 onwards Povetkin was considered "past his sell by date" following the loss to AJ who doesn't get all that much credit for beating Povetkin which is rather strange in itself.

 

"Ortiz has a very unimpressive resume"

If "green names on a page" = "resume" in your eyes then I suggest that you have a shallow assessment of the quality of fighters.

One problem is that it ignores that a fighter can be heavily avoided. I know you guys like to pretend that no one ever ducked Ortiz but there are quotes from Joyce's trainer and Povetkin's promoter ADMITTING that they wanted no part of him. Even rival promoter Hearn said of a 42 year old, 2 KO defeat Ortiz that "No one wants to fight him". Andy Ruiz blatantly tried to break his contract to fight a 43 year old Ortiz to sign with Triller and fight a kickboxer in Mexico. Fury said that Ortiz was a "very good fighter" but "brought nothing to the table", so he had no interest in fighting him unless he beat Wilder. Chisora said that Ortiz was a "nightmare" and compared him to a "southpaw Mike Tyson". Takam pulled out of an agreed fight with Ortiz to fight Duhaupas in a bout that never materialised.

There are facts, not opinions and it's no doubt the tip of the iceberg.

Another problem is that "green names on a page" ignores dominance, A-side/B-side, heart etc. Ortiz didn't get many big opportunities when he was most able to capitalise but he consistently dominated lesser opponents who rival contenders comparatively struggled with. He never relied on officials to get him wins, never fought at home, never quit. Ortiz showed better power and/or skills against various mutual opponents than Hernandez, G. Jones, Pulev, Perez, Lebedev, Rivas, Joyce, Takam, Chisora, Whyte and Parker.

Southpaw heavyweights are also hugely overrepresented in big upsets: one of Holyfield's five losses in his 20's and 30's was to southpaw Moorer, one of Vitali's two losses was to southpaw Byrd, one of Wlad's four losses in his 20's and 30's was to southpaw Sanders and two of Joshua's three losses (thus far) were to southpaw Usyk, while Tyson, Bowe and Lewis didn't fight any. Southpaw heavyweights barely existed prior to the 90's, were more heavily avoided (most historical heavies were untested against them) and many of the best have been a lot smaller than Ortiz, usually with a serious deficiency (relatively weak chin or featherfisted). Ortiz is also a very skilled and experienced Cuban (shut out Scott and Thompson, who else did?) with 362 amateur bouts and gold in the Pan American Games.

"he hasn't fought the other top dogs"

The primary reason why Ortiz often isn't considered one of the top dogs of the last decade is that Wilder beat him. On ability he was definitely a cut above Whyte, Parker, Ruiz etc. Most would agree that Ortiz's best performance was Jennings in 2015: that was 7 years, 12 fights, 2 KO defeats and 6 knockdowns prior to Ruiz, who 43 year old Ortiz went 50-50 with over 12 rounds.

Wilder's cautious American team worried that he wasn't ready for Wlad or Povetkin in 2015/2016, I don't deny that. However...

Usyk was chasing the Joshua fight as soon as he got to heavyweight, now he wants to fight Fury. How is that Wilder's fault? Wilder is probably waiting in the wings to fight Usyk if the Fury negotiations fall through.

Joyce has only been relevant since he beat Parker recently and as @Furey noted, a couple of years ago he was a clear underdog against Dubois: a totally untested prospect.

Team Wilder and team Joshua were both playing games. Wilder signed to fight Fury to strengthen his hand in negotiations and was essentially locked into a trilogy for the next 3 years. Joshua lost twice before the trilogy was concluded, resulting in significant periods where he himself was locked up and now he's in a period of rebuilding. I have no doubt that team Wilder would love to fight Joshua right now as Wilder is going on 38 with significant wear while Joshua looks vulnerable and could potentially further devalue the fight if Wilder doesn't get him first but does Hearn want to risk 33 year old Joshua being brutally KO'd, dropping to 25-4 and potentially having his career ended by Wilder?

Very few considered Douglas, McCall, Puritty, Ruiz etc. etc. to be serious threats but they turned out to be. Had Wilder beat Andy Ruiz in 2018 for example, he'd generally be seen as another zero-threat "bum" on Wilder's record.

 

Talking about the Wilder's opponents because it's Fury who fought him, how about talking about the opponents of Usyk's best wins? Having the discussion in this way will turn it into slops.

 

Nobody has supremacism to match you Brits opinions off yourselves. Funny how you use one duck to excuse another. Btw, i'm neither slav, nor do I like them better than anyone else, just cannot stand Brits after being on this forum for a decade.

 

You could have saved all that typing and simply stated you like the taste of Fury’s baby batter.

But you arguably like Wilders more…

Quick one, are you still living with your parents NEET? Did you end up getting the answers you were seeking on Reddit about the unemployment benefit?

 

The ethically challenged Fury apologists become even more ethically challenged.

 

"nor do I like them better than anyone else, just cannot stand Brits after being on this forum for a decade"

It's good to know you hate British people, explains a lot.

 

Just you idiots on here. Your rock bands from the sixties and seventies were fantastic.

 

Fury himself called Usyk a middleweight. Of course he gets no credit for beating a much smaller man.

 

There are people who will simply never accept Tyson Fury for the great he has aready proven himself to be. Bitter hatred.

Beating Usyk won't change that